Girls Evening Out at the T20 Finals - Still single in the city

Girls Evening Out at the T20 Finals

Sushmita Bose - Sunday, June 28, 2009 2:48 PM

I have a simple theory about supporting a team when a football or a cricket match is going on: I always root for the best-looking side in the tournament. If it's the full line-up in cricket, then I invariably veer towards New Zealand (Daniel Vettori takes the cherry on the cake), and I am deeply saddened if they happen to make an early exit. This time, the Twenty20 ICC World Cup almost eluded me: my TV, given to me as part of my ‘furnishings' in my apartment, does not beam any of the international sports channels. I'd occasionally see -- and hear -- some folks in office whoop and then go tsk tsk, and I when I asked them what was going on, I was told it was the T20 tourney.

India, I heard, couldn't make it to the semis.

And a few days later, I heard that Pakistan and Sri Lanka had made their ways into the finals.

It was Maria's last day in Dubai last Tuesday. Last Sunday was the finals. "I want to watch the match," she announced grandly.  "And I want YOU to watch it with me. What's more, you'll have to support Pakistan."

I am always game for a girlie evening out, but I produced my theory on good-looking sides. She didn't buy it. "Hey, this is Pakistan vs Sri Lanka -- I don't think you'll get see Greek gods in any case, so you may as well give me company."

We decided to go to a sports bar. One of the sports bars next to our apartments apparently has a TV attached to every table, but we pitched for the old faithful - The Old Vic at the Ramada, also shouting distance from our nook. There was a giant screen put up, and a few smaller ones all over the place. When we walked in, Sri Lanka was already batting. "Look at Sangakkara," I said excitedly. "I think he's very hot, I'm supporting Sri Lanka."

"He's not," Maria countered. "Look at his nose, it's too long."

"It's not too long, it's fine, it's better than Umer Gull's nose," I maintained stubbornly. "Er, two women in a bar alone, do you think people here may think we are, you know..."

"Doesn't matter," Maria reasoned. "See," she pointed around, "there are mostly Pakistanis here and, right now, they are far too excited by the cricket... God, if Pakistan wins, everyone will be so happy, it'll be one good thing to happen to us after a long time -- you better start cheering for us."

Groups of Brits and Aussies occupied a few other tables but they were keen on drinking intently and appeared rather disinterested in the goings-on on-field - and onscreen. I ordered a Bacardi Breezer and cocktail samosas; Maria had a bad throat, so she wanted only warm water. "By the way," she added huskily, "my sister's also coming here to hustle you into supporting Pakistan."

Her sister walked in 15 minutes later, and kept adjusting her hair and looking at herself in the mirror. "Is Pakistan wicket-keeping?" she suddenly asked. "It's called fielding, you dodo, not wicket-keeping," Maria snarled. "Oh whatever," her sister said. One more patting of the hair. One more look stolen into the mirror. "A guy I really like at work is also here, he's sitting at the other end," she whispered into my ear. "I've come here just for him." And then, loudly: "Do I look pretty?" "Awful," said Maria, "the poor chap will run for his life... anyways, he's not interested in you."

"You look REALLY nice," I offered. "Shall we go and look him up?"

She and I went to the other side of the L-shaped bar, and she pointed out a man sitting with some 10 other people in a dark corner, nursing a large whisky on the rocks. "Do you think he's hot?" she wanted to know. "Ummm, you are better by far," I said. "I really like you Sushmita," she beamed. "Once Maria goes, you and I can be friends."

Maria glared at the two of us when we returned after our sightseeing. "Are you here to watch cricket or lech at men?"

"Both," both of us said.

The match, it seemed, was going Pakistan's way. I tried to clap once when a SL bowler (I forget who) got a Pakistani batsman out, and at least 30 people turned and stared at me. I squirmed in embarrassment. The two ladies sitting with me burst out laughing, even as one of them tried to steal yet another look into the mirror.

As Pakistan won, shouts of ‘Pakistan zindabad' erupted, and a lot of people enthusiastically hugged each other. One very drunk -- and very happy -- gentleman staggered over to us. "I have ordered a cake -- in my team's honour -- and you ladies will not go anywhere without having a slice of that. Also, I want you all to order a round of drinks -- it's on me." Having said that, he raised his voice and shouted: "EVERYONE IN THIS BAR... THE NEXT ROUND OF DRINKS IS ON ME."

"I think I'll tell him you are Indian, he'll retract his offer about the cake and the drink," Maria joked.

"Don't you dare, the cake looks really yummy," I said. It was, even though someone spilled a glass beer onto it.

A solitary Indian gent (other than me, that is) skulked away. I have a feeling he was rooting for Sri Lanka but couldn't be very vociferous about it since he knew he'd be outnumbered. We skulked away too, after gorging on fat slices of the black forest cherry cake. "Let's scram before the drunk man starts insisting he wants to pay for our drinks," Maria's sister had hissed. "I have a feeling he'll want our numbers."

"She just wants to leave because the guy she's after just left -- she's hoping to ‘accidentally' bump into him in the lobby," Maria snorted. "She's so pathetic, isn't she?" Well, we did 'see' the man in question, but he seemed to scurry away a tad too furiously. "There I told you so," Maria was triumphant.

"The man is such a creep," her sister fumed. "I don't know why I like him still. Maybe he has a gilrfriend. Sush, tell me na, am I better than him or not?"

"Far better," I said. "You'll get a really hot man, don't worry."

"Yes! Yes!" she pranced around on the road, while Maria rolled her eyes up.

We walked back home, laughing and giggling. It was a great evening.

 

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From pawandeep

June 28, 2009 3:14 PM
During this match, from the beginning I had the feeling that Pakistan would certainly win. In cricket, apart from skills, luck also plays an important part. Pakistan team has been at a receiving end for the last so many months. There players were not allowed in IPL, and there was no cricket on pakistan soil due to those blasts. It was the pakistan team, that were more desperate than others for a win. They needed this win more than anyone else, to lift their spirits. God helped them in winning.

From Akansha

June 28, 2009 4:38 PM
That sounded like extreme fun, loads of fun. You must be missing Marua!

From Ron

June 28, 2009 7:11 PM
Very vivid and very funny. I wanted to know if you would support New Zealand if they were playing India?

From Twitted by magicpana

June 28, 2009 10:09 PM

Pingback from  Twitted by magicpana

From Adam

June 29, 2009 12:57 AM
Interesting!!! Quite! By the way I'm a Pakistani.

From Dr.Spook

June 29, 2009 9:46 AM
sushmita: when will we hear about some hot romantic escapades? after all this is 'single in the city' right?

From sushmita

June 29, 2009 1:02 PM
Ron: Yes, I would :D Dr Spook wanted to know abt hot romantic escapades, I wouldn't mind one with Vettori ;D Btw, Dr Spook, haven't had the time for escapades, so to say, but now that you've mentioned it, I'll try and keep up with the pace! Adam: Thanks!

From suhana

June 29, 2009 1:22 PM
@Sushmita. I was going through the livemint blogs and read a comment by MOHIT who calls himself a true Hindu and has said that Muslim men eve tease non-Muslim women because they are not burqa-clad. He reinforced the stereotype about the Muslim woman so typically. So thanks for this blog, for showcasing Pakistani (Muslim) women as being fun-loving and normal. Thanks for breaking the stereotype.

From sushmita

June 29, 2009 5:44 PM
Suhana, thanks for the observation, but I have to admit it was totally inadvertent: I never meant to shatter the stereotype, but funnily enuf, it worked out that way!

From RDX

June 30, 2009 11:12 AM
Blog with high fun quotient!! Loved it..

From tara

June 30, 2009 12:55 PM
I agree with your observation that the best-looking team deserves to win. Sush, who do you root for during the football World Cup? I go for Italy, what hunks!

From M

June 30, 2009 1:10 PM
Sushmita, No offense . You write well but your posts do indicate that you have something against Indian men and probably are impressed with white men . Of course, this is your choice . But your statement that implies that there would be no hot men in the Sri Lankan team or in the Pakistani team stems from ignorance. Greek Gods eh ? Two of my best friends at work are Greek and they are no Greek Gods though one of them looks good . I have been to Greece and most parts of Europe and I did not see any more handsome men in Europe than say in India . It may be that your dislike of Indian men is a result of the way the media portrays them and of course, the way many Indian men behave . However, remember that all this is coming from a girl who never dated a white man . Do not get me wrong . This is not a personal attack on you . I know that there are quite a few Indian girls like you. It also has to do with the fact that people are enamored with the unknown . Girls like you should date white men and you will soon realize that there is nothing special about white men . There are good and bad among all of them . The grass is always greener on the other side . There are German women ( lots of them ) who go crazy about Indian men here . It is a love for the exotic . I for instance could have slept around like crazy but I am not that type . There are however many Indian men ( not all Indian men are considered attractive here ) who took advantage to a sickening extent . Last but not the least, Greek Gods exist everywhere . Does Imran Khan ring a bell ? There are more I could name . You do not have to be Greek to be a Greek God ( I know you know that but I was just being sarcastic )

From M

June 30, 2009 1:31 PM
I forgot to mention before any of you get aggressive . I have encountered some white men who thought Indian women were ugly based on pictures of India they were shown . Impoverished Indian women in Indian villages. I had no qualms in silencing them and proving to their chagrin that they were dead wrong and ignorant .

From RDX

June 30, 2009 2:35 PM
M, We all are crazy for white that is why TV is full of advt of magic potions to get fair skin. Again as you rightly said, it is totally about individual preferences. People find the opposite sex hot irrespective of their origin , race, location , color if the bare minimum self set specifications are met. (My Original Theory © copyrights with RDX enterprise)

From sushmita

June 30, 2009 4:32 PM
Tara: When it comes to soccer, I'm all for England and -- before Beckham left for greener pastures -- Man U. But my love for England predates Beckham -- it goes back to the time when Gary Linekar was captain of England.

From M

June 30, 2009 4:33 PM
Well , I am not crazy about anything white . I am here to make money . I married an Indian woman too when if I were crazy about white , could have ended up with a white girl . I have dated enough white girls to know that Indian girls are the best. Check matt756.wordpress.com or matt756.blogspot.com to know more Also , not all people find the opposite sex hot irrespective of their origin or race. Haven't you read the post which said that implied that there would be no Greek Gods among the Pakistani or the Sri Lankan team . So , what are you talking about anyways ?

From sushmita

June 30, 2009 4:49 PM
M: Yes, one thing that bugs me about most Indian men is their lack of a sense of humour -- they take everything so personally, and so dead seriously. The exchange was about 'Greek gods' (Adonis, most specifically), not Greek men working in your office. If u thot I only have a 'thing' for White men (actually, not surprising, considering that 95 per cent of Indian men would dig fair women), I think I mentioned Sangakkara is very hot, and he's not 'White'. Finally, I want to know how you silenced ur friends in Germany who thought Indian women were ugly: did you show them pictures of the ordinary Indian woman who takes a bus to work, or did you show them 'Photoshopped' and whitened pix of Bollywood actresses and models? Btw, how did you assume I've not dated -- or am not dating -- a White man? :D

From tara

June 30, 2009 4:58 PM
@M, forgive me but I have dated know enough Indian men to know that they want their creature comforts in life far more than a personality-based relationship. They want their beds done, their food on the table, their parents taken care of, a male progeny to take forward the bloodline and so on. They are smart enough to know that only Indian women will be able to give them all of this. Most others will ask you to take a long hike. So spare me this statement about Indian women are the best. Everyone knows why you think we are the best.

From M

June 30, 2009 5:01 PM
Sushmita , You must have forgotten what you typed before . That you almost dated a white man . Who would mention that she almost dated someone if she did not really want to date someone in particular ? Yes, I know that you were talking about Greek Gods ( Adonis ) or whatever. You thought that Sangakkara is hot but you also mentioned that there would be no Greek Gods in the Sri Lankan team which means Sangakkara is not as hot as a Greek God . 95 percent of Indian men would dig fair women ? Where did you come up with that statistic ? ha ha . I showed them pictures of ordinary attractive Indian women including pictures of my wife . I am not into deceiving people . About the sense of humour thing . I did not take anything personally but I only find the obsession with anything white that many Indians display very degrading especially when it comes from people who have not had any relationships with white people ( romantic or physical ). Guess you always met the wrong Indian men . By the way , I do not know if you started dating one recently .

From M

June 30, 2009 5:06 PM
Ha ha . Tara , I got to say you are displaying ignorance . Just because you think something does not make it right . Ask my wife . Ask her if I told her that I want a male child . Ask her if I asked her to take care of my parents . Ask her if I don't help with household work . I mean I know some of my friends who told me that they would not marry a working women and I do agree that many Indian men are like that but to assume I am one of them is arrogance at its best . I stopped dating the white women I dated because of their lack of stability . My wife for instance said that she could go home ( she is looking for a job here now ) and stay with my parents because my mother was going to have an operation . I was the one who said that there was no need. By the way , she is a woman with over 5 years of work experience with blue chip companies and was a Manager in a fortune 500 company at the age of 26 . So , she is not your typical Indian woman either . You just dated the wrong ones and are brooding about it . Not my fault but I would suggest that you are wrong to assume that I am one of them . I can give you more reasons why I stopped dating white women and settled for an Indian . So it is not always that Indian men think that Indian women are the best for the reasons you specified. Maybe, you should date white men and then you will understand . By the way , don’t go for any Indian guy who comes along .

From sushmita

June 30, 2009 5:11 PM
M: I did not say there would be no Greek gods in the Pak or SL teams, my friend did. I came with the fairness statistic from corporate researches, it's the no 1 reason why Fair and Lovely, Naturally Fair and so on, are the highest selling FMCG products in India. And I personally know of a number of dark-complexioned women who live in perennial depression because they are scared they wont find a man who'll marry them. And then, the reason why Imran Khan was such a craze, is, er, because he 'looked' so gora and had such an 'international' following. Did you know Akshay Kumar doesnt go out in the sun because he's scared of getting tanned and losing all his sex appeal?

From M

June 30, 2009 5:11 PM
By the way , Tara , go ahead and date white men if you get them to like you and I am sure you will come back a wiser woman . Not that there are no good white men or women or interracial relationships that did not work out . Many white men I knew thought that Indian women smelled of curry or had facial hair or even worse ( some went to the extent of saying that Indian women had black smelly you know what I mean. Some were never direct but some blogged about it in private and some said it in directly . Some even said that for instance that Indian food was shit . Of course, guys like me and a few others always had the last laugh in these arguments either online or in person . Of course , the Americans are good at being politically correct. No offense . This is not what I think and I think it is very demeaning but this is what many white men think .

From tara

June 30, 2009 5:17 PM
That's it M. Your wife is not the typical Indian woman, you are not the typical Indian man. You people are lucky so let's leave it that, and not get into what 'typical' Indians are like. It is not a matter of sour grapes or anything. I've dated very nice, atypical Indian men, and I am married to a great guy now. Again, he's lived abroad mainly, and not the 'typical' Indian man who I loathe. About the fairness fetish, Sush is bang on. Even if the men are themselves dark and bad-looking (not to say that the two are related), they want fair and good-looking women. Take a look at the matrimonial ads.

From M

June 30, 2009 5:17 PM
My bad on that Sushmita . But , you with your posts have indicated or rather implied that you find white men hot . Your friend then fits the profile of a confused Indian woman who does not know what it is to date a white man or have a physical relationship with him . I never bought fair and lovely and am being honest about it . So , how can Tara here assume that I am like the Indian man she loathes . My wife is dark skinned and when I was about to marry her , ( some of my relatives were not happy ) saying she was not so fair . Of course , my relatives and my parents had nothing to do with our marriage . We found each other and of course , my parents had no problem with it . Akshay Kumar has a problem and the problem is that he suffers from an inferiority complex that many Indians suffer from . Well , for the whites , Imran Khan was just another Paki and no one they could relate with . For that matter, in his days , Ravi Shastri was considered hot and he was in no ways white . You are giving me examples of people who want to be white or stay fair , I can give you examples of people who were quite the craze in spite of being dark skinned.

From M

June 30, 2009 5:23 PM
Well Tara , She is not the typical Indian woman and I am not the typical Indian man . Many of my white friends tell me that I am not a typical Indian and that explains my popularity among them . I asked them what is typical ? They said that I drink , I eat all kinds of meat , I talk about sex and I am really cool . So, now should I be proud of this or be unhappy about this ? Don’t you think it is hypocritical on their part to think that if somebody does not drink or eat meat , he is not cool ? If a white does not eat meat , he is just vegetarian . If an Indian guy does not eat meat , he is conservative and backward. How convenient ? I was born in the Middle East , raised there and then moved to India when Saddam got crazy . I then moved to Germany in 2006 . I have been to almost 20 countries . But , this is no magic potion for ensuring that I will be a man that women will flock to . It is not exactly about if you have lived abroad or seen many people . I know many of my friends who think like the men you loathe in spite of being raised in different countries . What is typical according to you Tara ? I know about the matrimonial ads but then again , those people are low-lifes

From sushmita

June 30, 2009 5:38 PM
M: I have never indicated I find White men hotter because of racial reasons. Very objectively speaking, I find George Clooney hotter than Salman Khan, and Denzel Washington hotter than SRK. It's a personal choice, it's the way they look and the personality they have. When you say "low-lifes", it just means you are in denial of what the majority of your countrymen are like: unfortunately, that's what 80pc Indians are -- poor, uneducated, with no global exposure and, by extension, biased and prejudiced. The comment that so riled you was made by my Pakistani friend. She does not have pork and doesn't drink. I drink but don't have beef -- all this means nothing really, we used to hang out all the time, me drinking beer and she having beef satays. But I have seen Indians get all moralistic abt drinking -- and even eating beef. That's what gets to me. And that's what must be getting to your White friends. I mean, many Indians don't want to mix around with White folks here coz they feel they "drink and eat beef". Seriously! It's very different from opting not to drink or whatever and being alright with others doing the same. I've seen Indian tourists in Thailand and Singapore refer to natives there as "flat-faced Chinkies" and discuss frantically how they eat dogs and cats. Their idea of women in, say, Bangkok, would be they will sleep with you if you even snap your fingers. Maybe Whites say a lot of crap about Indians, but it's not a one-way traffic let me assure you.

From M

June 30, 2009 5:56 PM
Denzel Washington for one is not white and you know that . Of course, finding white men hot is of course your choice and I have no problem with that . What I have a problem with is when Indian women start branding all Indian men as idiotic or whatever and portraying white men as God’s gift to women when most of them have never dated a white man let alone had a physical relationship . I am not in denial of anything . I accepted long back that many Indian men have a problem . There are many white men in the USA and in Germany who have had no global exposure and my God , you sure do not want to cross paths with them . I also don’t appreciate it when people who do not know what kind of a guy I am assume that I am an asshole just because I am an Indian guy . Hell , I fight racism in my own ways . Many Germans think that they are the best because they have never been outside Europe though Germans are among the most well traveled in Europe . They consider Hungary to be a third world country . Arrogance . You say that you do not eat beef .That is fine by me . That is your choice . But , the people you said who had a problem with eating beef and with people who ate it just moved one step forward. You are tolerant . They are not . Of course , you do not harm anyone with your preferences but many white people would find this strange . I do not know about any Indian here who does not hang around with white folks because they drink or eat beef. Seriously . But , maybe you know of some of them like that . Here, many Indian guys do not hang around with whites because the whites first of all do not make them comfortable or it is more comfortable to hang around with people from your country . Whites also do that . In my MBA class , some Americans preferred hanging out with Americans . However, I made it a point not to hang around with Indians only when I came here because if that was the case, there was no need for me to leave India . I had only one good Indian friend for a very long time and hung around mainly with the Italians ( courtesy my female Italian friend ) , Spanish , Greeks and the Germans . I was at one point called an Indian adopted by the Italians . Of course , now I know more Indians but I enjoy hanging around with the Greeks in general ( the friends I have ) because some of the Indian guys I met at parties were lecherous or thought too highly about themselves. I even saw a guy ogling my wife with lust in spite of his wife and kid being there . My wife also noticed that . Of course , the other Indian guys seemed fine . But , perverts are there everywhere . However , for some reason , those parties kind of suck with all the attitude . There is also another problem with many Indians abroad . Many think they are above other Indians and try too hard to be like the whites . I mean the ones who have an inferiority complex. You can see this even in Bangalore where kids are just trying to mimic the west . I do not know if you have had the kind of exposure I have had . Maybe , you have had it but let me tell you that I have studied with students from 22 different nations ( MBA ) , and have been to 20 countries . I have also dated / spent time with white women . The whites are equally to blame if not more than us Indians After all , we did not go to different nations and try to colonize them . Remember that

From M

June 30, 2009 5:57 PM
One more thing Sushmita . You are living in Dubai . Try living in Germany ( say East Germany ) for a while and let me see if you will view whites the way you view them now . I am not saying all whites are bad of course Also , if you have not dated a white man yet , try dating one just for the experience. I hope you have a pleasant experience.

From sushmita

June 30, 2009 6:27 PM
M: you've been constantly asking both tara and me to start dating white men!! wonder why... anything we need to know? btw, i think we are getting too caught up over something that wasnt meant to be serious. There are good people and bad people everywhere in the world -- so I am sure dating a White man or a woman doesn;t have to be necessarily a bad experience (as u;ve been trying to suggest), just the way dating any man from anywhere has to necessarily be a bad experience. Besides, it;s not possible to try and date a white man -- or any man, for that matter -- just to prove a point I have some great White friends and I have some great Asian friends. But then, we all seek out like-minded people, wherever we are.

From Lolly

June 30, 2009 6:34 PM
Mr M, why don't you tell us your real name instead of trying to be 007's boss? Lol. Hi, I am Lolly, and am an Indian chick, but I have dated a few White men. They were really nice guys, and found nothing about them that was remotely objectionable. Far from being critical about Indian babes, they had utmost respect for us. I am not a wannabe gori or anything like that, and I shuttle between Mumbai and London. M, I have a feeling you are very unsuited in Germany and hating your stay there. Why are you complaining so much about Whites? It's such a typical Indian thing to do -- complain, complain and then start saying how great we are and how bad they are. Come back to your country where you belong. You'll be able to make money here too if you are a bright guy. Believe me, you will be a much a happier person!!

From M

June 30, 2009 6:39 PM
No , my point was that you probably will find out that white men can be as bad or even worse than the the type of Indian men you loathe . You can always have a better perspective when you have been there, done that . Maybe, both of you even if you dated white men , would find them to be good . Of course, Tara is out of the picture because she is married. By the way , I never had bad experiences with the white women I dated. They were good in their own ways . Just that I found out that my wife was better and she is Indian . I stopped dating the last one I was dating the moment I met my wife . See my point ? Also , I do agree that you cannot just date someone just like that but you should give it it a try . It may turn out good for you in any way . Either you will find a really great white guy or you will learn to appreciate Indian men better. You only have to gain and nothing to lose .

From tara

June 30, 2009 6:45 PM
@M. tell me something. suppose i date a white guy and he turns out to be a rotter, and then a second white guy, and he too is a rotter. how does that prove indian men are BETTER? isn't that a weird logic? wanted to know: how many Indian MEN have you dated? what do u know abt Indian men after living in 20 countries? d'ya know how many of them have made lewd advances at me just assuming i'm fast -- cuz i dont dress like their mothers?

From M

June 30, 2009 6:47 PM
Ha ha Lolly Looks like you are someone who is enamored by white men . Details about me can be found on my site . How come you are not dating a white guy anymore given that you said you had ? You can have whatever feeling you want . I already implied that some of my best friends here are German . Whether I am bright or not need not be proven to you . Sorry if I sound arrogant but I think hands down I would win any intelligence test with you because you have no idea about my credentials. Actually , it is usually the bright who get a job in countries like Germany in spite of not knowing German ( I did not know German when I got a job here ) because the labour market is so restricted to non EU nationals . I am unsuited here ? Is that why I was a guy who was handed a work visa extension without even applying for it by an employee in the foreigners office ( I was supposed to do it only in September ) . This office is supposed to be full of hardnosed Germans . I hated my stay here the first six months but not because of the people but because it was hard without German knowledge . I am complaining about racist attitudes. Have you ever set foot in Germany ? You shuttle between London and Mumbai . Have you ever stayed in say parts of England that is racist for a year ? There is a big difference between living in a country and staying there for short periods . Things changed after I learned German . You are being arrogant by assuming that I am very unsuited here . I was one of the most popular Indian guys among non Indians in my class and am the most popular foreigner in my office . So much for your stupid assumption .

From M

June 30, 2009 6:51 PM
How many Indian men have I dated ? I do not date men . I am not gay . Nothing wrong with being gay though . It is not a weird logic because I never said that Indian men are better . I said that white men can be as worse as Indian men and even worse . I know quite a lot about Indian men after being to 20 countries and living in 3 different countries for many years. Many Indian men make advances at women because they are friendly . It is stupid and there are many lecherous Indian men . However, there are many perverts among white men too . They are just more subtle . There could be a white guy looking down your blouse . You probably would not notice it but most Indian men who do it are not subtle and you would notice it . You will know about the perverts among white men only if you spend time with them . I know about them because I am a guy and had some perverts among them talk about their sexual conquests .Read my blogs on this site citing examples

From M

June 30, 2009 6:54 PM
Tara , it is too late for you to date a white man now given that I assume that you are a faithful wife . But , you are not the best candidate to praise white men and imply they are better than Indian men in general because you have not dated them . Experience comes from action and not just from reading or so .

From Lolly

June 30, 2009 6:54 PM
You sound as boring as the hard-nosed Germans, so full of yourself, no wonder your masters believed in ethnic cleansing. Have fun with the ***! Oh, oh, just because you date someone does not mean you marry that person. That explains why I am not married to a gora. Besides, my parents want me to marry someone from my caste, my community and I don't wanna get cut off from my family business. Get it? Logging off.

From M

June 30, 2009 6:57 PM
Lolly , one last thing provided you are reasonable and behave yourself , If I do not like a job , I leave . If I do like a country , I leave . That is how I have been . Very bold but yet I believe in my abilities . I do not believe that my boss is always right either . Because of this , I have had problems in India . I am not complaining about Germany in general. This is the reason I live in Berlin than in some other city .But if I come across hypocrisy , I make it a point to comment on it .Like it or not . By the way , you ask me to disclose my name et al . What difference does it make ? What have you told me about yourself ? How hypocritical ?

From sushmita

June 30, 2009 6:59 PM
Okay guys, this is getting too personal and definitely not what I had in mind when I wrote abt having fun at a girlie evening. M, I want to read ur blog, sounds very interesting. Please have a look at my post on the Average Indian Male: the comments were far more interesting than the blog to my mind. There were people from all over the world blogging abt Indian men, so if u have the time and patience, do read up on the comments -- they were mostly from Indian women!

From sushmita

June 30, 2009 6:59 PM
Okay guys, this is getting too personal and definitely not what I had in mind when I wrote abt having fun at a girlie evening. M, I want to read ur blog, sounds very interesting. Please have a look at my post on the Average Indian Male: the comments were far more interesting than the blog to my mind. There were people from all over the world blogging abt Indian men, so if u have the time and patience, do read up on the comments -- they were mostly from Indian women!

From M

June 30, 2009 7:00 PM
How stupid ? You can log off . I bet that you could not even tell your parents that you dated a white man and I think what you perceive as dating is different from the real dating . If you are so forward, how come you are going to marry someone from your own community and caste ? ha ha You have just revealed how polemic you are . Just because you date someone does not mean you will marry them but all along you knew you would only marry someone your parents chose for you . I am not full of myself . I know how capable I am and you were the one who was arrogant enough to tell me that I was unsuited in Germany without knowing my credentials .

From M

June 30, 2009 7:07 PM
Sushmita , Thanks and no offense was meant . Well , I was not the one attacking anyone the first time . What does piss me is people questioning my capabilities or credentials or my suitability without knowing anything about me . I am not saying I am a special guy even though many girls have told me that I am special . This is no boasting on my part but to have people like Lolly taking digs at me can infuriate me . She was talking about dating and yet in the end goes and marries someone her parents pick for her . What credentials does a person like her have to comment on dating and what not ? Yes, I did read the blog and in fact commented long back . You even replied to it . I used the same name M

From sushmita

June 30, 2009 7:12 PM
Oh yes, I do remember, and I also remember thinking then that you were a female! Now i hope you realise why someone asked you if you've dated Indian men :D

From M

June 30, 2009 7:14 PM
To end for the day , ( I am leaving office early to go watch State of Play with my wife ) So much for details Let me tell you Sushmita If someone who is beautiful has airs about her because she is beautiful , then it can be tolerated but imagine if someone is ugly and yet thinks she is beautiful just because she is surrounded by beautiful women ? I am smart and really smart at that .I know this and I have proven myself in a country like Germany . The odds were against me and to have someone like Lolly question my suitability can really make you blow your top . A woman who claims to have " dated " white men but yet is ready to marry some random guy . If someone wants to question my credibility let it be someone who is good enough for that . Sorry if I sound arrogant Sushmita and I mean no offense to you because you maintained your sanity and decorum when you replied to my posts .

From sushmita

June 30, 2009 7:42 PM
M: don't let that rattle you. I've always maintained blogs are a big source of unwarranted -- and unpalatable -- postings. The more you give the impression that you getting hot and bothered, the more the other person will close in on you. Just maintain your cool -- and remember, untimately, you are accountable only to yourself. Enjoy the movie!

From awara

June 30, 2009 9:39 PM
wow!! all of that was so intense. a request:can we have a blog post on something that would unleash a little less p...

From Handsome Brian

July 1, 2009 1:45 AM
Golly. How can anyone get so hot under the collar about such an innocuous and fun piece. Remember the old saying that when you point at someone, three of your fingers point back at yourself? What started off as a really enjoyable posting has (for me) been spoiled by someone with an ego problem. For God's sake get a life and stop assuming things about other people.

From Dr.Spook

July 1, 2009 8:33 AM
Handsome Brian: do what I do. relax kickback and enjoy the show. i am having a good time reading all these posts about a seemingly innocuous subject. amazing diversity of opinions - if everyone had the same opinion as yours then where would the fun be?

From Dr.Spook

July 1, 2009 8:37 AM
Brian: another point. Keep in mind that U know sushmita personally so u have a completely different view than the rest of us who know her only by her writing. we dont all have this "greatest-thing-since-sliced-bread" opinion of her as u seem to have

From M

July 1, 2009 12:11 PM
Brian , You must be Mr cool right ? What with a name like handsome Brian ? Are you reassuring yourself ? This is a blog where everyone can post his or her opinion and I made mine . Do you have a problem with that ? What was posted did affect me because I am tired of a lot of people implying that there is a problem with Indian or Asian men . You tell me that I have to think of three of my fingers pointing at myself . Remember your post about how hard it is to get a visa at the Indian Embassy ? Who is talking here ? A British guy ? People at your embassy can be the worst people to deal with . A British guy whose country colonized half of the world ? So , you are no one to tell me to get a life . Maybe, I have a better life than you .

From M

July 1, 2009 12:13 PM
Sushmita , I know what you mean but before you tell me that I should not let anything rattle me , do bear in mind what some of the bloggers here wrote . I am not the one who lost my cool here . How would you react if someone told you to get a life when that someone was a loner or did not know what kind of a life you had ? Take care and be nice as always

From M

July 1, 2009 12:15 PM
Brian , Last but not the least , If you look at it , who has a ego problem ? Do i have a name like Handsome Brian ? Before you accuse me of assuming things about other people , look at who started it all and who assumed things about me . Try to be objective . I know that it is hard for your lot to be so given your background .

From Handsome Brian

July 1, 2009 12:19 PM
>>Dr Spook: You are so right. Life would indeed be very boring if we all liked the same things. But I think Lolly's posts above summed up precisely what I think. Some people are so blinkered about race that they fail to see people for who they really are inside.

From Rose

July 1, 2009 12:26 PM
@sush- whew hot debate..from such a simple and fun topic..btw sush try and get a sneak peek at the movie new york..would love to knw ur opinion bout the movie cz u give brilliant unbiased opinions full of humour.... PS: I also like Denzel Washington & Beckham..loads of European footballers...I loved tis week's post..perfect description of a girly evening out..kinda did the same on saturday night except dat I drank the worst cocktail ever at this new resto-lounge in town and felt extremely sick & we watched tennis..

From M

July 1, 2009 12:32 PM
Life would also be better if people who had a log in their eye did not talk about the speck in someone's eye and also if they stopped assuming stuff about other people . That too coming from a national of a country that plundered other countries for ages. Don't get me wrong . I have nothing against British people in general but yes I do have a problem with arrogant British people especially when they talk about tolerance. It is like George Bush talking about peace.

From Dr.Spook

July 1, 2009 12:33 PM
Brian: btw i personally do agree with what u said. i think some of us r getting bent out of shape on what appeared to me originally as a simple topic. but at the same time i am very interested in hearing their views as well; it is fun to see how different people think and react to the same issue.

From sushmita

July 1, 2009 1:04 PM
Dr Spook: u mean I have competition from sliced bread?? :D

From Dr.Spook

July 1, 2009 1:12 PM
sushmita: of course! nothing in god's green earth beats sliced bread right ;-)

From sushmita

July 1, 2009 1:15 PM
M: Okay, this is where we draw the line. Nobody is allowed to cast racist slurs here. It's different when a bunch of Indian women get critical abt Indian men coz our mothers told us we shouldn't wear short dresses -- since men in our country cant keep their hands off women who they perceive as 'loose'. Its a national shame and we have every right to talk abt how sexually frustrated many Indian men are (btw, have a look at the recent India Today cover and our rape statistics), because WE have to deal with it. If some woman sits in the US and says how badly behaved some American men are, we'll all give her a chance to say so, right? It's also true, we have perfectly wonderful Indian men too. This is not reason enough to start attacking someone becos he is Brit or German and whether they colonised the world or not. Suggest we stop living in the past: just the way we got rid of sati and human sacrifice, let's get rid of our colonial hangover. Beer would be better any day.

From sushmita

July 1, 2009 1:19 PM
Rose: I did watch New York. What did you think of it?

From Dr.Spook

July 1, 2009 1:21 PM
sushmita: whoa! hold on there - we got rid of human sacrifice??! darn it - someone forgot to send me that memo. i am sooo disappointed now: in my mind i had even picked my favorite person for this (no i wont say who for fear of life and limb ;-)

From shanthi

July 1, 2009 1:29 PM
have been following this blog for a while and can't help but post a comment. this bloke M represents everything that is wrong with Indias today. apparently he lives in germany, so much for his love for his country. he wants to make money, not serve his country. he's writing in a language the brits taught him (if india hadn't been colonised, he'd have been speaking oriya or bhojpuri or tamil for the rest of his life). he says he hates indians who ape the westerners. he doesn't like indians who sleep around, he thinks that is sick. he wants bouquets because he hasn't done that (dont you practise your kamasutra?). confused, contradictory, petty, shallow, racist. i could go on. thank god you are not in india. that's your biggest contribution by the way.

From sushmita

July 1, 2009 1:32 PM
Dr Spook: I know there are stray cases that crop up now and then -- but we are trying, we are trying!

From M

July 1, 2009 1:39 PM
Sushmita , The USA has more rapes than India ( check out yourself ) I have not directed any racial slurs at anyone here . I am not the one who attacked anyone personally first either . What is racism ? It is an illusion that one’s race is the best and that one has the right to rule others . It is also a belief that one’s race determines one’s achievement . Which country ruled most parts of the world ? India ? or does England ring a bell ? I have no problem with you but I have a problem with people who attack me personally without knowing a thing about me . If someone says that Germany killed six million Jews , then would that be racism ? No , It is the truth . I said nothing but the truth and the truth hurts. Racists believe in illusions and illusions are not the truth Just because you probably know some of the people who blog here does not mean you can ignore their faults . Also , would it be better if a Swiss national said that it would be better if the world was more peaceful or would it be better if an American said the same thing ? I have made my point .

From M

July 1, 2009 1:43 PM
Shanti , Actually you are the one being a hypocrite . You hate me because I have an opinion ? Just because you live outside your country does not mean that you hate your country . I clearly admitted that I was here for the money and also for the fact that I like the international exposure and travelling . Why do many people hinge upon the importance of the English language . English would not be so important if the British had not colonized half of the world in the first place. Ever thought about that wise girl ? I do not hate Indians who try to ape the westerners . I think low of those Indians who have an inferiority complex and would do anything to suck up to their white bosses in white dominated countries . Did I ask you for any bouquets because I did not sleep around ? How am I confused ? How am I racist ? How am I shallow ? There is one word for you and that is schlemiel .

From sushmita

July 1, 2009 1:48 PM
M: The US has more REPORTED rapes. Most rapes in India don't get reported. Do you know why? Because the families of the victims fear they won't get married, as it is perceived that men don't want to marry a woman whose 'izzat' (read: virginity) has been forfeited. I don't get this: why talk of Napolean and Alexander in hushed toned of reverence as great conquerers. And we say Akbar was a great ruler coz he extended his empire. Why are you singling out poor England?

From Dr.Spook

July 1, 2009 1:50 PM
"poor England"?! hahahahaha this just keeps getting better and better .. its rockin'! :-)

From M

July 1, 2009 2:02 PM
Yes Sushmita , I knew you would say that they were not reported in India when I was typing what I typed before . True to an extent but then there are date rapes and other rapes that are also not reported in the USA. Have you heard about the drug Rohypnol ? It is the one of the most used drugs in the USA to do you know what ? Rape. You are talking as if India is one of the worst shit holes on this planet . The country or the region where you are living in has rampant homosexuality all behind doors and wait , I have no problem with gays but big grown up men prey on young boys . Second , there are many rapes inside marriage . No one is talking about Alexander and Napolean in hushed tones . There was no need to talk about them . By the way , long long back , people were barbaric and it was expected to be so sometimes even to survive . However, what England did happened in the late 19 centuries and the early twenty centuries . That is why there is a difference. It was not okay to be barbaric by that time . Look at what the USA and England did . They attacked Iraq based on false assumptions . Not that the men at the top did not know that they did not have WMD's. I have been to Iraq.It was one of the most secular countries in the Middle East in 1990 . Saddam was no saint but he was way better for the Iraqis than the Americans . Heard of Blackwater ? So yes, I have a problem when nationals from countries with so much blood on their hands talk arrogantly . Of course , there are many nice Americans and British people . I have a problem only with the arrogant ones and the ones who assume things at the drop of a hat . Times have changed. Why don't you take a look at history and how the human race has evolved. Morals change over time . Ethics don't

From shanthi

July 1, 2009 2:05 PM
u poor IQ-disabled being, why are u equating the lack of good-looking indian men with world history and colonisations? i think brit men look very unappetising, but i think italian men and spanish men are incredibly good-looking. can u explain my "white fixation" with regard to british colonisation now? isn't a woman allowed to be attracted to a man without history lessons from insecure men like yourself? it's very simple dude, women, even sati savitri indian women, get atracted to men, and they do so without thinking of history and geography and colour codes. incidentally, i now realise you are a typical indian male and a typical NRI -- insecure, needing to justify everything under the sun, needing to talk about how popular you are, and thoroughly intimidated by women.

From M

July 1, 2009 2:11 PM
Shanti , You first take a dig at my IQ without even knowing how intelligent I am . Fine , I am not going to stoop down to your level . Do you happen to work as an FBI profiler ? You have profiled me so well , ha ha . lol There is a lack of good looking Indian men eh ? According to Shanti . May I know who you are dating now or married to ? Did you do something about the lack of this and go ahead and have a relationship with an Italian or a Spanish guy ? I mean if they let you get close to them . I never talked about women doing something wrong by being attracted to anyone . I am just sick and tired of the stereotype . If you believe I am insecure when my umpteen female friends think I am special ( you have not even met me ) , well then you have a problem here . It is not me . Intimidated by women ? ha ha . Yes, I am intimidated by intelligent beautiful women like you . You just hit the nail on the head . Wow , you must be the next woman sensation to grace planet earth . If I talked about how popular I am , it is because I am and by the way I am not the one who made personal attacks against you or questioned your IQ.

From sushmita

July 1, 2009 2:14 PM
Hey, I have no idea why a fun outing based on my personal perceptions about what constitutes a good-looking man has become a spiel on the US invasion of Iraq and the axis of evil. Just because I say David Beckham is better-looking than Ravi Shastri this means I hate India and think it's a cesspool (of what? ugly men?)? LOL! U mean I can't think Paul Newman is handsome without having to justify my lust for all things White? Talk about freedom of expression being a constitutional right!

From M

July 1, 2009 2:15 PM
By the way , last thought for you . I am a typical Indian male . That is why I dated girls from at least three different countries and I pulled out.One was an Italian too and that is why I married an attractive Indian lady who was a Manager at the age of 26 in a Fortune 500 company God , where were you ? Sigh ! I could never have had you anyways , You are the missing link in my life Shanti

From tara

July 1, 2009 2:23 PM
@M: Get a life. Simple. @Sushmita: Yes, I think if we Indian women even dare to consider any man good-looking, it is sign of a immorality. It is loose behaviour on our parts and our men cannot handle it. God forbid if that person is White. In future, blog on taking care of mothers in law and preparing dinner. The men would be okay with that I'm hoping ;-)

From crazy cat

July 1, 2009 2:28 PM
@M: How many men did you wife go around with before she trained her sights on you? Pleeze spare me crap on US and UK and how great you are, just answer my question.

From M

July 1, 2009 2:31 PM
Sushmita , Either you are not getting my point here or you are purposely ignoring it and making me look like the villain here when an objective outsider would certainly understand what I mean here and who are in the wrong here . I told right at the start that one can like whoever one wants but it is stupid when one talks as if white guys are the best . You can go ahead and date or marry or do whatever you want with a white guy . It is a free world and freedom of expression is a right but the problem starts when one says she likes white men and that Indian men are idiotic or perverts or at least implies that . I think you are intelligent enough to know what I mean

From M

July 1, 2009 2:34 PM
Tara, ha ha , You are going off topic here . I have no problem who you set your eyes on . You are purposely missing the point here . I have a problem when women talk as if all Indian men are perverted. It is not me who has to get a life but you who are so intolerant Crazy cat . Stop targeting my wife you cheap greenhorn . If you have questions about me, ask me . Do not drag family into this Why should I answer your question . Do I ask you how many guys your mother or your gf or your wife slept with ?

From M

July 1, 2009 2:36 PM
crazy cat, If you are a female , Do I ask you how many women your father or how many men you slept with ?

From crazy cat

July 1, 2009 2:40 PM
It's ok for the man to state in a public domain that he went around with loose White women, but not ok for his wife to do so? A-ha! I rest my case.

From M

July 1, 2009 2:42 PM
I never said what I did with them . I did not kiss and tell anyways . Did I say that those women were loose ? I did not say that my wife could not have relationships before marriage . What do you even know about her? I only have a problem with you targeting someone who is not even part of this topic . I am sure any sane person who reads your blogs will understand how cheap you are to even ask such a question . To drag family into some topic they are not even related to . The way you assume stuff . Wow . Go rest your case you nut case . Good riddance !

From sushmita

July 1, 2009 2:54 PM
M: Very objectively you have a problem I think. I am entitled to think for myself, right? If I think so-and-so, White, Hispanic, Black, is good-looking, that means Indian men are PERVERTED? Most of them are, but that's besides the point. Why is it that you have a such a problem with someone considering a White man handsome? Surely, that's my prerogative. You said ur family members had a problem with your wife being dark-skinned, but you -- rightly -- didn't care. That was your prerogative, this is mine. So, yeah, too bad, but I do think Daniel Vettori is better-looking than Irrfan Pathan. There may be some who think vice-versa, and I;m not going to argue with them, and try and prove a point. Isn't that silly? I mean, you may like Salma Hayek more than Kareena Kapoor -- and guess what, even if Kareena is Indian, she is fairer than Salma.

From M

July 1, 2009 3:42 PM
Sushmita , I do not know why you think that there is a problem with me but not with the others who blogged here . Maybe, you should read my posts again . And you are saying that you are being objective . All those personal attacks on me meant nothing to you eh ? Fine . I did not say that you meant Indian men were perverted because you liked white guys or whatever. The topic was diverted and I said I had a problem with the stereotyping of Indian men as ugly and perverted . This post of yours just highlighted how some Indian women think . I was not arguing here to prove that Indian men are better than white men or better looking . I was arguing to say that there are as many good looking Indian men as among whites. You choose to ignore because you are not objective . You even conveniently forget the fact that some people here personally attacked me and someone named crazy cat also dragged my wife into the picture . Wow , you can ignore all that and I have a problem ? lol Experience makes people wiser

From Rose

July 1, 2009 3:44 PM
@sush- i liked it cz i went without any expectations..never mind katrina's role..but john i tot has becum pretty good compared to his earlier performances.irfaan khan is alwaz brilliant..neil nitin mukesh was also a surprise..watch a movie called khuda ke liye(sup to be fabulous) sush- eto simple topic er upor ato tah debate.eta tomar agar blog post on AIM'S er record bhenge debe..Btw I also like Daniel V!!I think these comments hv given u enuf material for a post called "how nt to overreact at a blog"

From Rose

July 1, 2009 3:51 PM
@sush- I dunno if i m going to add fuel to the set of comments..i just had a huge discussn in a coffee shop yesterday with a bunch of pals over "shining new sensation- mr shiney ahuja"..sush- my indian guy frenz were shocked and one said tht "he's brought the image of t urban indian male even further down by stoopin this low"..shobha de has written a fantastic article on t whole rigamarole...point that i wanted to state is that there are good indian guys - fortunately i hv met a few and have frenz as well..but there's a bunch of the populatn that is irrespective of education,status etc that is extremely perverted and need to know how to respect a lady..be it their maids or mothers...

From Rose

July 1, 2009 3:54 PM
@sush- not that all white men are angels but they definitely know how to behave with women and show respect..atleast the basics are in place...plus there are laws which are enforced despite the corruption,there's a high chance of conviction..bt in india just look at how long manu sharma was scot free- jessica lal case and hats off to Indian media esp NDTV for the campaign for justice for her...

From RDX

July 1, 2009 4:03 PM
Wow!!! This post is increasingly becoming interesting, though the idea of attacking individual rather than sharing experiences is slightly disappointing.

From Rose

July 1, 2009 4:08 PM
@RDX- that's the spirit..well said!!

From decoy

July 1, 2009 5:17 PM
@M : U got the points correct @Sush : Its normal to have an attraction towards white men, and white men liking Indian women if they have travelled to India or they have seen Indian women enough. I am not sure where is the racist thingy is present in "M"s comments, the fact is that not all white men are nice, Most are seeing onl expatriate white mens and thinking that all goras are smart and nice. Indian mens (Most of the Indian men are shy) are not well trained to pick up girls, or crack jokes and so on and are not so spontaneous, and white men have been mastering this the whole life, there is a lifestyle difference, [u can call what ever u want, or well tell racist and close u r eyes on that]. @tara : if u think that the expectation of Indian men for their wife is that she should make the bed, cook and wash the vessel and so on, u got the wrong perception and this wrong perception is making most of the Indian women to behave so, and which men will try to change this behaviour when everything is done by the wife? I don't think if u were the husband, u will never tell u r wife to stop doing and start sharing the work :)

From shipra

July 1, 2009 5:33 PM
luks like ppl here listng to jackson's - 'black or white'. gud music. 'mazing chords. lol.

From M

July 1, 2009 5:59 PM
Thanks Decoy for being someone who could finally be objective and see what my point was . What happens in some forums is that even if you are someone who is right ( not that I am right always ) , if just about everyone else disagrees with you , you become the villain and people can be so subjective . You got it right . There was nothing racist in my comments . We are tuned to cry racism at the drop of a hat. First of all , if you look around , there are not many white men who have married Indian women . You can see quite a lot of cases where Indian men have married white women . Does that say something about Indian women ? No. It could be that Indian women have not had that many opportunities as Indian men . Could also be that Indian women are expected by their parents to listen to them and marry someone from their own caste . Could also be that there are hypocrites like Lolly who say white men are great but in the end marry some Indian random guy. Of course , many Indian boys are brought up the wrong way . For example , boys are told that it is okay to be macho and be a bit rebellious . For girls , it is a strict no no . Hypocritical ? Yes but who is to blame ? All the Indian men in the world ? I reiterate , There are as many good looking men among Indian men as among whites and equally if not more perverts among white men as among Indian men . Do paedophiles ring a bell ? The internet is full of them and most of them are whites . The perverted among white men happen to be subtle . They can look down a girl’s blouse and make sure the girl does not notice . I can give you umpteen examples of perverted behavior displayed by white men . First hand experience. I have quite a lot of American friends . Do you want to hear it one by one ? One of them was so good with women that he was a sex machine . He had the charm and yet he was one of the most perverted among them . Most of the girls here who praise white men here , could come across this guy and not know his intentions . He was that good . He once said that he was my fan . He a pervert my fan ? Why ? Well , because I helped him a lot when his white male friends would not . With homework , with money and other stuff. Many relationships in the west are superficial . Not that they are not in our sub continent . There are many too but percentage wise , the west would win hands down . Not all of them are so though . Also , white men are brought up in a different environment , where pre marital sex is okay , where dating is okay , so yes on a whole , there will be more white men who know how to treat women better than Indian men but a lot of this is superficial . What else explains the high rates of infidelity and divorces in the west ? I do not quite agree with your last point though Decoy . I do not think that one should sit back and see his wife do all the work even if she wants to .

From M

July 1, 2009 6:02 PM
By the way , before any smart girl or guy talks as if white men on the whole are better than Indian men , make sure you have first hand experience and make sure that you have lived in a white dominated country like I have I do not know if I have the best credentials to comment on differences in race, racism and stereotypes but I have lived for more than half of my life abroad and have been to 20 countries The chances are if you have , you would see my point Arrogance yes but it is arrogance backed by truth . Talk about women who have never dated a white man talking about the virtues of white men ... Bring it on .

From M

July 1, 2009 6:02 PM
By the way , before any smart girl or guy talks as if white men on the whole are better than Indian men , make sure you have first hand experience and make sure that you have lived in a white dominated country like I have I do not know if I have the best credentials to comment on differences in race, racism and stereotypes but I have lived for more than half of my life abroad and have been to 20 countries The chances are if you have , you would see my point Arrogance yes but it is arrogance backed by truth . Talk about women who have never dated a white man talking about the virtues of white men ... Bring it on .

From AG

July 1, 2009 7:38 PM
M: I understand the point you made: it is bad stereotyping to say most Indian men are perverts and that most white men are great. But Sushmita is the Queen of sterotyping and generalizing. Look at her previous posts and u will understand. She takes her experiences of having known a few Indian men and even fewer white men and generalizes it for the entire population. She is not doing this with bad intent but because she is young and naive and has not lived in white countries so she has rose coloured glasses of that world. From her blog it seems she hates everything about India. I suggest you dont waste your breath here trying to convince people that their view may not be correct. It is of no use. This blog is actually a fan club. It is a place for Sushmitas fans to come and praise every word she writes. It is not a place for thoughtful exchange of diverse ideas.

Sushmita: it seems like u have been through a bad time in India and it has made u hate the country and the men here. I hope time will heal you and make u a less bitter person and more positive about this beautiful country.

From M

July 1, 2009 8:10 PM
At last , I see some sane people . AG , You said most of what I wanted to say but I did not say that because I did not want to be hard on anyone other than on anyone who attacked me . Sushmita never attacked me personally except her last post did not show me in great light . Yes, I have actually read her posts and it does seem that she does not like a lot about India but I cannot confirm that she is a India hater . Maybe she is, maybe she is not but for sure she has not lived in a white country for long or in racist parts of different countries to be a good judge . Not that she said all Indian men are perverts but she does seem to be a person who is kind of enamoured by the white man . Nothing wrong with that . That is her personal choice but what gets to me is when people especially Indian women start talking about white men as if they are better than Indian men when most of them have not even dated one . Some women here clearly implied that . Also good to see an Indian guy here who also proves that there are many Indian guys out there who can be good at writing , can be honest and be as good or better than his counterpart in the west. Is Sushmita naive ? I think so but then all of us were when we were young. This blog does seem like a fan club . Many were attacking me and the funniest thing is that many of these women think that they are part of the new uprising and that they fit the new Indian woman . They sadly do not . Some labelled me the typical Indian man just because I had a different opinion . Hell , I have been around the world , dated women from different backgrounds and I do sound like I am boasting but I said things about myself because I had to . To prove a point. I had to even talk about my wife . One girl or guy even had the audacity to ask me how many guys my wife was with ? ha ha . Can you believe that ? Yet, Sushmita and her like think I have a problem and crazy cat has no problem . Get real everyone . You do not become great by just rebelling . You become great by rebelling against the wrong . Fight rape in India . Fight child molestation . Fight abuse of women . Don't praise the west unless you are sure you are right . Like I said , the ones among you who think white men are really cool when compared to Indian men , go to Rostock , Germany or Pennsylvania ,USA ( I can name umpteen places ) and live there for say 3 months . Then come back to this forum . I assure you that if you are still sane , your opinion will be different. Time will never erase anything but time sure does heal and make one wiser .

From M

July 1, 2009 8:16 PM
By the way , the country you are in Sushmita ( UAE ) is not a country where you will be treated better than say in India. God forbid should such a situation arise . One , because you are Indian and many Arabs wrongly think Indians are nothing but filth because they have mostly seen Indian labourers and second, because you are not white . Arabs are also enamoured by the white race. I was offered huge salaries in Dubai not because I am highly intelligent . It is because I have an MBA from Purdue University , USA. However, if you look at statistics , you will see that Indian students all over usually have the best grades . For example , in my MBA class , there were 60 students which comprised 8 Indians , We Indians had the best grades ( average ) and all but two made it to the Dean's list at least once . There are around 2.5 million Indians in the USA and they have the highest per capita income among all ethnic groups . Need I say more ?

From sushmita

July 1, 2009 8:28 PM
AG: No, I have not had a bad time in India vis-a-vis men – as in being disappointed in matters of the heart. Lol. I’ve had a bad time with power cuts and traffic jams and irritating males who you can simply slap away. I moved to Delhi on my own, with people back in Calcutta telling me I’ll be raped over and over again, every day, every night. I’ve had the time of my life in Delhi, I’ve driven back home at 3 am in the night, and, touchwood, nothing ever happened that I couldn’t handle. I’ve known men who are great and caring and sensitive, and not just in the capacity of a lover/boyfriend. Most of my closest friends are men, and 80 per cent of them are Indian men. I wish you guys would lighten up. There’s no deep, dark frustration or bitterness in me becos some man ill-treated me, believe me!! It;s amazing how a post on a drinking session during a cricket final can suddenly transform into a Indian Men vs White Men debate. I really wish Indian men can be more like us women: not take yourselves so goddamn seriously, and stop making out that EVERYTHING in life is tinged with a subtext.

From SID

July 1, 2009 8:42 PM
I am an Indian male and I have to say I am jealous of M. Gosh, are you for real? You have a degree from Purdue? Geeeee. You have dated women from various backgrounds? Geee. You get offered fat salaries? Gee. You are the complete man -- remember the Raymonds ad? Men like you give us a bad name because women like Sushmita, Tara and Shipra will take you over us anyday. We, in our frustration, will resort to pinching female bottoms on buses. You privileged people think no end of yourself and you call us low-lifes! Living with white trash,you too have become white trash!

From pawandeep

July 1, 2009 10:29 PM
I have been reading all this, and would like to say, that an issue has been made out of nothing. It was a plain column written by Sushmita ( and we all have been loving her for this kind of light writings ) and she just wrote how she spent that evening with her friend Maria who is from pakistan. I think, when we are with friends and in a mood to relax, we talk on any subject and person and it does not mean that we are very serious. And she herself concluded the column by saying "We walked back home, laughing and giggling" . We must respect others likes and dislikes, and I am sure if ever she has any bad experience with any White, she would discuss it openly. She is not so liberal, as her writings suggest.

From Abhishek

July 2, 2009 12:18 AM
Unnecessary fuss being created....@M : Don't know why are you so interested in WINNING this debate about "nothing." Everyone has right to have an opinion, and Sush expressed hers. What's d big deal? We listened to your opinion too, but then you can't enforce it on someone. Learn to live wid differences.

From Handsome Brian

July 2, 2009 2:44 AM
@Dr Spook: How right you were... I relaxed, kicked back and am now enjoying the show immensely. @shanthi: I feel devastated that you find Brit men unappetising. How can I possibly sleep at night? Oh, OK...I'll be brave. @SID: I'm intrigued how M has "become white trash". Surely us whites are trash enough without having to have M thrown into the melting pot too! @Sush: Heaven help us all if you were to write about something just a little bit on the controversial side....

From Dr.Spook

July 2, 2009 8:30 AM
Brian: Yes i am loving it. I had not in my wildest dreams thought that we would be visiting Alexander Napolean Akbar in a blog about a harmless girls night out. what fun!

From Dr.Spook

July 2, 2009 8:33 AM
sushmita: u said: "I really wish Indian men can be more like us women". ok. just for u i will be brave and do it: i am off to the lingerie shop today to buy me some nice womens clothes - let the transformation begin from the inside out what say?

From sushmita

July 2, 2009 1:02 PM
Dr Spook, pls post pix post ur shopping spree :D Handsome Brian: when did i write anything controversial? u mean the bit abt sangakkara's nose -- u know what they say abt men with long noses!

From Dr.Spook

July 2, 2009 1:23 PM
Susmita: sure but they would probably cause nightmares to most sane people ;-) guess what - now i know all about Victoria and her little secrets

From Dr.Spook

July 2, 2009 1:24 PM
unbelievably little btw

From Rose

July 2, 2009 3:53 PM
@sush- pix wud be hilarious... @dr spook- victoria's secrets is vvvv expensive...little clothin dat costs a lot;-)

From Handsome Brian

July 2, 2009 5:33 PM
@Sush: No (he says innocently) - what do they say about men with long noses?

From sushmita

July 2, 2009 8:12 PM
Dr Spook, ur secrets will be safe with us, what say Rose? Handsome Brian: actually, u wouldn't want to know... ur nose isnt long enuf :D

From Handsome Brian

July 3, 2009 12:38 AM
@Sush: I can only assume you are referring to a keen sense of smell. I simply cannot think of anything else that fits the bill. Is this something that only applies to white trash like me, or is it a universal truth? Do tell us. I am sure that I am not the only one of your visitors who are longing to find out about your vast experience of men with long noses :-)

From M

July 3, 2009 10:32 AM
SID , I never addressed anyone as white trash nor did I call you a low life or other Indian men lowlifes . You even fail to see what I am defending . Yet, you jump on to the Sushmita's fan club bandwagon . Pathetic . You think you are cool by being sarcastic . I actually am not supposed to reply to guys like you because you yourself do not know what to stand for . Are you a fence sitter ? When did I address Indian men as lowlifes ? I am who I claim to be and last but not the least, I would never want a girl like Sushmita , Tara or Shanti . So , there is no competition . You can have all the girls of their type. So , go take a hike

From M

July 3, 2009 10:37 AM
Abhishek , I do not know what type of a guy you are but there are Indian men who will support Indian women like Sushmita just to show they are cool and epitomize the new "Indian man " irrespective of the opinion . I am not saying you are surely one but you do not have to be an Einstein to know why I reacted the way I did . My posts were not a result of this particular post but because of various posts of hers and later on , because of personal attacks directed at me . Who said it was about winning or forcing my opinion? Either I am blind and insane or you are blind in that you cannot see what the others who attacked me personally wrote . And then you say , "oh, we listened to your opinion . Now , will you take leave "

From sri

July 3, 2009 11:18 AM
Came across this blog while surfing the net. Amazing writing by Sushmita. After reading this went through all of the blogs by her from october onwards. Just had to quit my Job (Recession and all) and this blog has helped me ease up and relax and make light of the endless process of forwarding resumes and waiting for interview calls. Whats even more amazing is the kind of reader response she gets for every article she puts up. Just couldnt resist adding my 2 cents: This guy 'M' holds some strong opinions (and i dont agree with quite a few), and the way he expresses them doesnt make matters easier, but i have taken perverse pleasure in silently viewing the discussion it has raked up, although completely unrelated to the blog in question, it did generate some serious commentary from both sides. Dude you are highly entertaining as are some of the others responding to you. I agree with Sushmita that we AIMs do have a problem, in that we take ourselves too seriously, and follow double standards at every level. We DO at the end of the day expect our women to be tied to home and hearth, and are extremely insecure. We are very invasive physically and mentally to both women and men. Groping and leching is not all too uncommon. I have seen it occur first hand, and to be all too honest have been guilty a couple of times(And i dont profer any excuses for it- but would prefer not to get too much flak from other readers here). I would say that a lot of these problems arent just restricted to men and are common to all people from 'The subcontinent'. Our children are not encouraged to think for themselves and follow their own path. From the moment we are born we are entangled in a cycle of family,studies,responsibilities, pain hardship, poverty etc etc. Parents emotionally blackmail their kids (most of them do) kids grow up to be emotionally stunted 'half-adults' if you may excuse the term. There is no time to form a seperate individual 'world-view'. Where is the time for recreation, where is the time for releasing all the pent-up frustration, where is the time to develop as an individual? It is a cloistered, claustrophobic environment; highly unenviable. The actions of the AIM are symptomatic of a deeper, graver problem. An inablity to get in touch with our 'real' selves and living-in-denial. Mind you, the Average Indian Woman displays is affected too, albeit in a slightly different fashion, and i feel vindicated when i say this, a lot of them dont have a clue as to what they want from life and relationships in general. 2 girls i knew and dated for a bit didnt reveal to me for a long time that they are engaged to be married to some1 else (Fiance is abroad, different city), and here I was thinking that I am investing in a genuine relationship. They didnt know whether they wanted to get intimate with me, keep it platonic, keep the engagement, break it off. I called off one relationship and am still struggling with the other one. I have seen it happening increasingly often. Women who are confused with life, and unable to decide whether they want to break free of the Indian 'Cycle' of an arrianged marriage to a guy who they dont really like and follow their heart...or keep it real and fall in with their parents' expectations. They want to exert their independence but at the same time are scared to let go of the safety harness. Stuck in this rigmarole they end up doing stuff which benefits none in general. Do any of you agree with me? I would love a response... God bless...

From M

July 3, 2009 12:24 PM
By the way , I forgot to comment on Sushmita’s comment asking Indian men not to take themselves too seriously ? Who was ? I mean I was responding to personal attacks and defending my opinion . If someone assumed that you were a stupid , would you not react ? Stop being hypocritical Sushmita . You subconsciously think you are right just because you have a fan club here . A sane objective person would certainly say you are being arrogant here in a subtle way . You do not confront but you drive home the point with your opinions . Oh Sri , If you are speaking for yourself , say so . Do not speak as if all Indian men are like that . For one , I am Indian but have never groped any woman on a bus or train or whatever. I do have strong opinions but when you are the only one responding to the whole Sushmita fan club , you have to be strong . I am the perpetrator here and yet a lot of you forget the personal attacks including dragging my wife into the picture . I do not expect my wife to be tied at home and am not insecure . Speak for yourself . You speak as if there are negative qualities only in people from the subcontinent . I do not know who you are or where you live but your whole opinion about problems with the subcontinent would change if say you lived in some parts of the white dominated world . I am sorry about what happened to you with those two Indian girls and I do not want to comment on Indian girls here . However, yes I have a problem with Indian girls who think they know a lot about Indian men and think that white men are God gift’s to mankind but have not even dated one . By the way , Shanti , you find English men unappetizing eh ? How about Hugh Grant for starters ? Any sane woman would think that the guy was a hunk . Maybe, people find you unappetizing . Remember Sushmita saying that it was strange that some Indian men who were dark and ugly wanted fair and beautiful girls ? It is equally amusing to notice that some Indian girls who are no way near attractive commenting on the looks of Indian men or other men . I am not saying you are ugly ...he he . It is one thing to say that you find some men unappetizing but to say that you find all of the English men unappetizing is kind of arrogant . This is the attitude I have a problem with . I never said that there were no Indian men with problems . One guy just came out and accepted it . Mr Sri but some of you talk as if all Indian men have a problem .

From M

July 3, 2009 12:31 PM
I meant I am the perpetrator here eh and yet ?

From decoy

July 3, 2009 1:10 PM
@M : I agree that at times the discussion is not based on merit and is hijacked by some usual fans of sush and they aint interested in the facts. Its important to see the facts no matter how they are put in here, and u cant say that facts needs to be polished and nicer. We aint live in such world, do we? @sush : i think u need to see the life outside abroad and move to some European countries and meet non expatriates. Then u might realise how the white world is :) White men are more interested in Asians women in Asia and white women are interested in asian men. Its kinda different and exotic in their country. And most of the time its like tasting different kind of food, some thing different and exotic. If u feel that people from u r country act weird, there is nothing wrong with it, we are tired with the same people,same behaviour :)

From M

July 3, 2009 1:22 PM
And to add by Asian women , he means people who are Chinese, Taiwanese , Korean or Japanese .There aren't many white men interested in Indian women . There are hardly any white man and Indian woman relationships . There are more Indian men and white women relationships . In Germany , I cannot even count the number of couples where the man is Indian and the woman is German especially in cities like Berlin . I was approached myself by German women . Yet, some of your lot thinks white men are better than Indian men . A whole lot of you would be just rejected saying you were ugly though you are not but that is the perception many white men have about women from the sub continent . That they are ugly , smelly and hairy . This is not made up . You can check out for yourself. At the most , some white men would want to sleep with an Indian woman a few times because some consider them exotic but very very rarely do any consider an Indian woman to be wife material . You can try for yourself .

From sri

July 3, 2009 1:32 PM
Mr 'M', i speak from my own experience and observation of the people around me. I by no means mean to insinuate that you personally are like that. But yes, most of the people I have come across, have fit the stereotype. The family structure and 'values' that we from the subcontinent are so proud of do become overbearing at times. Its not just the men who are the perpetrators, i have seen women behaving in ridiculous fashion. Women & men who have the gall to chose career over family, who chose to get into casual relationships openly, who have the guts to do their own thing have to face tremendous back-lash from other women and men, they are called 'loose', they are branded 'disrespectful' of their family and culture and are ostracized. I hate to reveal this, but one of my cousin sisters who married for love but later got divorced got a lot of 'I-told-you-so's' from the family, ostracization was the least of what happened to her. These are not one-off experiences but are common to every home. People who themselves never had the guts to do their own thing get tremendous pleasure in putting others down. This i am sure u would not deny happens a lot in india. Because here people just do not undertsand the concept of individualised existence, we HAVE to dip our toes into other peoples business. In India 'Either 'I' am right or 'U' are right, 'BOTH' cannot be right. Peaceful co-existence and acceptance of the other is rare. People cannot just let you 'BE'. People dissect, analyse you, instigate you, poke you, but cannot leave you 'ALONE'. Thats the way it is. We are hyper-emotional, defensive, irritating, insecure and illogical in a lot of things we do. We do not explore 'life', we plainly 'live' it, as we have seen our parents do, as we have seen others do. There are exceptions, and i am sure that a lot of our younger lot see the world for what it is and have a mind of their 'own'. But the absurdity of it all does get frustrating at times and sends people like me own such 'ego-writing-trips' :) Now i am sure the white people, or more correctly 'westerners' have their own set of problems and that they have their share of perverts too, but does raking up those points do anything to 'offset' our shortcomings as a people. The point is THE TRUTH HURTS... and listing out other peoples' shortcomings in defense doesnt really help us get closer to the solution... Sorry... Didnt mean to get didactic back there ;)

From M

July 3, 2009 1:43 PM
Sri , Well , you talked about we Average Indian males . I am also an Indian male . What is an average Indian male for that matter ? Well , I personally would not choose career over family for sure and neither would my wife but that is because we mean more to each other than a career. However, that is personal and there is no problem with that provided we do not expect others to do so and do not criticize others who do so . However, I find it strange when a husband chooses his career over his wife or so and this leads to a break up or vice versa. Casual relationship and pre marital sex are one’s choice. Nothing wrong with what people want to do as long as they do not hurt anyone else. This "I told you so " syndrome is rampant in India but you are only pointing out the problems with the Indian society . When someone for example who has never dated a white man talks about the virtues of white men when compared to Indian men ( I am not targeting anyone in particular here ) , then wouldn’t it make sense to also talk about the shortcomings of the west ? How many people just sleep around just about with anyone with no regard for fidelity ? How divorces happen at the drop of a hat ? About broken families ? About western governments infringing on the sovereignty of other countries ? Iran is not supposed to have nuclear weapons but the USA can sit on them , right ? You might be thinking why I brought up this topic . Well, because I want to point out to you that westerners can be more hypocritical than our lot . India does not go on meddling in the affairs of other countries . We have our problems but we keep the problems in our country and usually do not let it spill over. The truth hurts but when you speak the truth, make sure you have both sides of the story . Thanks

From rakesh

July 3, 2009 1:50 PM
Why we can't let a humorous post remain that way?I am sure bedroom behaviour and prefrences was not what sushmita intended to write about or were even in her thoughts when she wrote the post.And M can't you see being trapped with arguments.Grow up man,please.That will be the best way to garner some respect for indian males,whom you wish to represent.

From sushmita

July 3, 2009 1:56 PM
M: The reason why I think you have a problem is very simple really. This was supposed to be a fun post. If I say I find chocolate cake better than cheesecake, it;s a personal choice. U may like cheesecake, but u cannot convince otherwise by saying my reasons for liking chocolate cake is xenophobia or deep-seated insecurities. It;s really making a mountain out of a molehill. I don’t care if White men suck or don’t suck. Unlike you, I’m not living with them or amongst them. I’ve lived in India, and I have to say MOST men have a problem (and, again, I don’t care if Whites are worse – good for them or too bad for them) because we’ve all grown being groped and eve-teased. Of course, it’s a part of life, and we become stronger human beings as a result. But I also think it’s absolutely within my rights – having lived with it – to say, hey, I don’t like it, without people saying how dare I say that. My home is in India, and if I cant venture out of my house after midnight because I may get raped, I have a right to say there is something wrong here. I don;t give a rat’s ass that the same thing may have happened to me if I was living in Berlin or Manchester – coz I am not living there. If I had been and had been facing such problems, sure I’d have talked abt it.

From sushmita

July 3, 2009 1:58 PM
Sri, thanks so much for your inputs. You do make a lot of valid points about how we Indians are “brought up”. For instance, I’m now waiting for the howls of protest that will emerge after the decriminalisation of Sec 377. What angers me is when people say We Indians Are Not Like This: we can’t be gay, we can’t be gropers, we can’t be whatever, and anybody dare say so we are ‘unpatriotic’. How anybody – anywhere in the world -- be or not be like something or anything? You know, it’s funny, my friends back in India all ask me “How can you work for the media in the Gulf? It’s muffled”... everybody thinks talking abt feel-good is hypocrisy. In India, when the press exposes the truth it is supposed to be journalism. But if you talk about it in private, well then you are prejudiced and biased. When Johann Hari wrote the Dubai-bashing piece in The Independent, the paper in a show of ‘objectivity’ called upon somebody in Dubai to write a piece on their pages countering Hari’s piece. This gentleman started saying things like: human rights violation happen in the West too and went into a flap, calling THEM names. Hari wrote yet another piece saying don’t compare yourself with others, tell me what you have to say for your country. I think it works like that with us. We just want to keep comparing ourselves with others instead of finding solutions to our problems and sorting out issues. How does it matter that women get raped in the US? Does that justify what men in India do? It’s like saying 50 more women get raped in the US, so let’s pat ourselves on the back. What is extremely heartening is that we are talking about it. Even if it is something as stereotypical as The Indian Male – and I have to say the poor guy is incredibly stereotyped – we are actually debating, and there are many men even, like yourself, who can indulge in self-reflection WITHOUT saying, why, even Italian men are just as bad or even worse! Who gives a damn abt what Italian men or American men are like, unless we are all moving to Italy or to the US.

From M

July 3, 2009 2:04 PM
Rakesh , Nice try . An objective sane person would know who has to grow up . You or me . Are you a Sush fan too ?

From sushmita

July 3, 2009 2:10 PM
Everyone: My colleague’s friend – an Indian woman -- works for Etihad Airways, and was saying she hates flying the India sector. She’s been treated badly, and only a few weeks ago, one Indian man poked her behind with a fork. When she protested, he started giggling. So what is one supposed to do? Argue that if you were flying to Brisbane, some Aussie man would have also done the same thing? Or should we just admit that we have a problem and hopefully work towards finding a way out of this? Are we trying to say that just because a Korean or a Sudanese man may have done the same thing, it’s alright girl, just live with it? And don’t dare criticise?

From sushmita

July 3, 2009 2:10 PM
Everyone: My colleague’s friend – an Indian woman -- works for Etihad Airways, and was saying she hates flying the India sector. She’s been treated badly, and only a few weeks ago, one Indian man poked her behind with a fork. When she protested, he started giggling. So what is one supposed to do? Argue that if you were flying to Brisbane, some Aussie man would have also done the same thing? Or should we just admit that we have a problem and hopefully work towards finding a way out of this? Are we trying to say that just because a Korean or a Sudanese man may have done the same thing, it’s alright girl, just live with it? And don’t dare criticise?

From M

July 3, 2009 2:16 PM
Oh it was just about finding chocolate cake better than cheesecake . If you remember, this post was not what made me react. I read quite a lot of your posts and all your posts just do not talk as if you like something over something else . What if someone said he or she liked chocolate cake when he or she has not even tasted chocolate cake ? One can say he or she does not like cheesecake if he or she has tasted it . However , when one talks as if chocolate cake is the best and much better than cheesecake when one has not tasted chocolate cake , what does it tell about the person ? You are not pointing out their problems but pointing out their good points and pointing out all the bad points of many Indian men . To add, you imply that most if not all Indian men are like that . So , when you praise someone or something, make sure you have experienced enough to praise that . You may have had enough experiences to say many Indian men are bad but you have no right to imply most if not all Indian men are bad based on your few experiences and you sound hypocritical when you talk about white men as if they are so cool when you hardly know anything about them . Now , who has a problem ?

From M

July 3, 2009 2:17 PM
Of course you can criticize smart girl but then , you are now talking about something where you were not the subject. How about talking about what some white men have done too ? Like a Belgian paedophile for starters ? Both sides to a story . Does that sound fair miss ?

From The Shrink

July 3, 2009 2:20 PM
@M. Extremely funny that you think it is okay for you to say you have moved in hallowed circles (white women and all) but then you baulk when someone asks you about your wife, alleging it meant she was sleeping around. She could have been harmlessly dating men the way you claim you were dating women. So if you can talk about it and not be "cheap", how does it make your wife "cheap"? Just because she's a woman? Wow! That's rich man! You are a case study!

From M

July 3, 2009 2:23 PM
You do not give a damn about how white men are ? Yet, your posts imply that there is something about them though you don’t really know what it is . Fine with your choice . See, I will tell you what your problem is in simple words You say that X is really bad and talk about Y as God’s gift to mankind However, you don’t know much about Y actually . There is the problem What do you get by writing about it anyways ? If writing solved the problem , wouldn’t our country have been a better place ? Not that you should stop criticizing . Have you heard about objectivity ? You are not living in India . Why not talk about Arab men ? Arab men can be so barbaric . In Kuwait , during the 1990 occupation , Iraqi soldiers raped Kuwaiti women and cut off their breasts. They put men who were supposed to be part of the resistance in a tub of ice and then poured hot water on them . How about Arab men who rape their wives in their homes and how about child marriage in the UAE? How about children from third world countries who are made to work in degrading conditions for racing camels . Indian children are the target of this . Do something for your country . What is stopping you . Criticize this please. Come on . You talk about men where you live right . Talk about Arab men . Shit scared ?

From M

July 3, 2009 2:26 PM
Shrink My stupidometer just broke . Do you have a spare one ? I need to check you out . Why are you assuming here ? I never said it was not okay for my wife to have relationships or whatever before her marriage. I did not mean that it meant sleeping around but to drag someone's family member into the topic is unwarranted for . When I am debating with you , I am not supposed to ask how many men your mom saw or your girlfriend saw ? You still don't get it , do you That is why I need a stupidometer You need a shrink

From M

July 3, 2009 2:27 PM
I see no reason why I should talk about my wife's private life in public . I talked about my life . Yet, you guys don't get it Stupidometer please. AG was right. He came and went . This is indeed Sushmita's fan club and some Indian guys trying to act cool .

From concerned

July 3, 2009 2:27 PM
Hey! M! You need to see a shrink! Fast! Today itself, if you have time! You seem to have all the time in the world! What is it that they say about Europe having 20-hour work weeks? Best of luck!

From M

July 3, 2009 2:32 PM
Concerned/ Shrink or Sushmita's fan You are a genius . You must be really exception . Will take your advice and changing your screen names won't help .

From arab man

July 3, 2009 2:36 PM
M, tell the greedy Indian agents and touts to refrain from hardselling human traffic first.

From arab man

July 3, 2009 2:36 PM
M, tell the greedy Indian agents and touts to refrain from hardselling human traffic first.

From M

July 3, 2009 2:38 PM
Oh there is a trot here who is changing screen names . Sushmita is one lucky girl . She has a lot of fans who have no identity .

From M

July 3, 2009 2:42 PM
Arab man, if the Indian agents listened, I would have told them to stop . However, they do not listen . They are as stupid as some people on this forum including you . Have your own opinion for God's sake and do not go about supporting someone just because you want to appear cool to Sushmita's fan club When you read my posts, make sure you read the other posts too . However, I am asking too much . How can I ask a fan of Sushmita to be objective ?

From niki

July 3, 2009 2:49 PM
I came across this post accidentally and had a nice read thru it :-) M, when every1 is making a point against wat u say, dont u think u sud re-run it in ur head again. U might have done wat u say and have all the credentials u mention, but dude "cheering for a better looking team" is not synonymous to "dislike for Indian men" or "dying to have a relationship wid a white guy". Clearing myself, m not a sush fan , as u have been "tagging" every1 who has made/tried to make a point against urs ;-)

From M

July 3, 2009 4:07 PM
Niki Just because a lot of people support Sushmita does not make them right . It is a fan club here alright . I am not saying you are one . By the way , did you forget a few bloggers who supported me ? Read her posts again and then get back

From M

July 3, 2009 4:10 PM
If you go on to a site that is hosted by say atheists and talk about God , you probably will have a lot of people making a point against what you say (if you are religious) . Does that mean you are wrong ? Give me a break . Your point makes no sense .

From AG

July 3, 2009 4:16 PM
M: Keep up the good fight mate but u will _never_ convince Sushmita about not sterotyping or generalizing. She has atleast 2 pet peeves that she obsesses about day and night on this blog: the big bad so-called average indian male who is raping every woman he can set eyes on (and by corollary the great white male who is an angel in disguise); and the "India Shining" slogan which she things should actually read "India Stinking". She ensures that these 2 topics come up every time so that she can indulge in Indian-male bashing and India-bashing. All her devotees gather here to pat her on the back for doing such a great job. Of course in the real world she is almost completely irrelevant.

From M

July 3, 2009 4:21 PM
Yes I agree with you. by the way , would you mind telling me your real identity ? maybe not here but maybe somewhere else . Pays to have people who think alike . By the way , I do agree that there are Indian males who put us to shame . My own blogs says that but to characterize the whole Indian male population as bad and to praise some other race you hardly know about is nothing short of arrogant Check out matt756.blogspot.com or matt756.wordpress.com Feel free to criticize me too

From M

July 3, 2009 4:34 PM
I also know that I cannot convince her or any of her fans . It is not about convincing them . It is about driving home my point . I am used to this and let me tell you , in the end , it was effective .

From decoy

July 3, 2009 5:13 PM
@AG : well said. @everyone: Re read the "Postcard from Pakistan" blog @Sush : Finally u have agreed that u have seen only a bunch of Expatriates who are so nice because they need other nationalities as well to talk to and spend time with, and assume that white mens are so generous and great.

From Rini C

July 3, 2009 6:17 PM
@M: AG is one Aniruddha Das Gupta, who earlier posted in his own name and then ADG, till he realised he has gone too far by saying he is perfectly all right if his wife gets a massage by a male masseur. lol. He is some kind of an engineer who has had the privilege of living abroad and now that he has come back to India he cannot get over his superiority complex. He is probably appalled at the mediocrity around here so he lives in his make-believe world. I remember him from some post on Dubai and Indian labourers where he kept saying he is so bright and so talented and India should be grateful he has come back to save us all. Ha ha ha ha. What a joke. Lemme introduce myself. I am Rini Chauhan, and I am half Bengali so I caught on to his Das Gupta. Later, he claimed he is Assamese or some such. I too am studying abroad, in the US, and am in Delhi now on a field project (and some much needed home-cooked grub). I read this blog regularly along with a few others on livemint.com (Priya Ramani’s First Cut, the X Files and the ht blog called Expat on the Edge by Naomi Canton). I like reading real-life accounts from women in India. I am not a “fan” of anybody, but I like these blogs because as women, growing up in a changing India, they offer some unique insights that only feminine instincts can garner. In the US, at least where in live in Virginia for the past 3 years, I am yet to come across any racial stereotypes about Indians. Americans will treat you the way you want to be treated. If you shrink and want to be insulated, they will ignore you (not just Indians, but anyone), but if you are forthcoming they will take to you. It is a very equal society there, not without its share of negative points but people are very aware of their shortcomings. If you, say, discuss Iraq with anyone, most people will agree that it’s a terrible thing that happened. In India, I come across people like yourself (although you do not live here) and AG or ADG who seem to think their blinkered vision of life is all that matters. Anyone who disputes these ridiculous points of view – that Indian men are the best in the world – will get subjected to tortuous and inane doses of half-baked theories. In your worlds, India is shining, it does not matter that half the people languish in abject poverty. Just because you do not, it does not exist. M, I know many white men, and they are pretty decent really. My class has a bunch of people from Europe as well, and I have gone travelling with them. Sometimes when I read opinions by young women living India, I feel happy that things are changing and some people are aware of goings on. Then, the men in our society pounce in just because they refuse to see anything that does not suit their purpose. I agree with the observation that Indian men -- most of them – could do with a reality check but I fear that will never happen because people like you will shout from rooftops there is nothing wrong with them. I thought we needed to be far more critical instead of being smug. Let’s keep living in denial. India is shining. One word of advice to both you and AG. Life is short, these blogs are supposed to be fun. Do not waste space bringing others down because you guys don't have a sense of humour or are incapable to empathising with what slightly 'hat ke' Indian women, who have chosen to live life on their own terms, have to go through thanks to opinions propagated by people like you.

From M

July 3, 2009 6:33 PM
Rini C and may I ask who are you to assume bullcrap about me ? Oh my God . You opened my eyes . Where were you hiding ? You faced no problems in Virginia, eh ? so , that means whatever I said about racism in the USA is nothing but a lie . You must be really smart . I have been to the USA but have not lived there for ages but my brother has been living in PA for ages . Do you know that you technically could be stopped by Homeland security anytime you try to enter the USA and taken to G bay ? No questions asked. This happened too may times far too many for comfort and recently the father of a friend who was visiting his son in the USA was questioned for 5-6 hours and he is a heart patient . Later he was let go and there was no apology . The guy is Indian . Talk about paranoia . Hat ke women ? Oh , you girls are changing India , aren't you ? Who gave you that title ? How old are you and what have you achieved at this age to call yourself Hat ke ? I will tell you what a good Indian woman is . An Indian woman for instance who does something about changing bad systems in India . An Indian woman who proves herself in the corporate world . Not one who has nothing but disdain for her own countrymen . If you are yet to come across any racial stereotypes of Indians after living in the USA, you either are blind or your white friends are careful not to say a word with you around . You are the one living in your own world of illusions . I could understand the stereotypes Americans had about Indians just by studying with 8 of them for one year. So , give me a break . By the way , for me , India is not shining . Whoever gave you that weird idea ? You know many white men eh ? Really ? How many have you dated ? See miss Rini , if there is a problem with many Indian men , my advice , don't come back . Marry some white and good luck . ( if a white man does have the guts to marry someone like you ) You have been in Virginia for 3 years and all you can say is that you know some white men but have not dated them , right ? Wow , really cool . Yet, you despise Indian men . How nice

From M

July 3, 2009 6:44 PM
Most people will agree that Iraq is a terrible thing that happened . That is why George stupid Bush was elected twice . ha ha . What a joke . Rini , You make laugh Indian men are the best in the world ? Now , let me think , when did I say that ? I said I had a problem with women who have not dated white men implying that white men on a whole are better than Indian men . Now , take my advice . Don't marry an Indian man . If you do marry one , then you are a hypocrite . By the way , once you have dated a white man , do come back in some time and let us know your honest experience . Good luck with finding a white man who would seriously date an Indian woman in the first place. Should I pay obeisance to you ?

From sushmita

July 3, 2009 6:50 PM
Oh Jesus Christ, wots going on here? Why are we getting so personal when all I said was Daniel Vettori is hot? He is, wot to do? My Net was not working and see what I missed out on! M: Sorry, dude, you've not proved anything. Admiring the way a person looks has nothing to do with racism, so go back to your drawing board. And before we get murkier, let me tell you that even within India men fall under different categories. If you are a man from Delhi/north India, you are supposed to be the worst. Families of young girls from Bangalore and Bombay dont want them to come to Dilli to study even if they get into St Stephens or JNU because they fear something dreadful will happen to the girls. My male friends in Calcutta say men in Delhi are not considered 'male enough' unless they sexually molest women. When two girls got molested in Bombay outside a five-star hotel, the press was full of people saying "men from north India have come to Bombay and made India's safest city unsafe". So whose side will you take now?

From sushmita

July 3, 2009 7:13 PM
M: Now you’ve got me seriously interested. When I moved to from Calcutta to Delhi, this is what I had to hear. EVERYBODY I met asked me, “Why aren’t you living in the Bong ghetto, CR Park?” Oh yes, I even remember asking someone politely about this “colony” called Chitto Park (I was looking for a place to rent out). “Colony?” this chap snorted, “You mean, ghetto?” There was endless catcalls abt how “weird” Bongs are, how bad their houses smell (they smell of fish apparently), how the only time they feel is happy is during the Pujas. And then there was a reverse. In a few days’ time, people started saying, “You’re not like a typical Bong.” I was supposed to feel gratified. Best was when new friends asked me, “How can you date a Bong man? They’re the world’s biggest wimps... Soooo, is his mother coming along?” I realise when I go back to Calcutta, how much people down there hate north Indians. They say things like “Oh these guys burn their brides... they do female infanticide... they have no manners... they are uncivil... they have no brains." And finally, “For God’s sake, don;t tell us you are dating a north Indian.” And it happens with south Indians. With Biharis. With God knows who all. It’s a part of our lives. We’re so immune to it that, seriously, it doesn;t matter. Let me tell you, these are day to day banters, not serious stuff like people from the North East being chased away, or the Shiv Sena goons telling non-Marathis they don’t belong in Maharashtra. So, M, tell me, whose side are you actually on? Now will you tell me I have a definite pro-Bong leaning and am racist towards north Indians and south Indians and Goans and Gujaratis?

From sushmita

July 3, 2009 7:29 PM
And M, finally -- and unfortunately for you -- I'm the world's least '-ist' person. I've seen people -- modern educated ones -- blanch when I tell them I'm fine marrying a Muslim if I love him. Boundaries -- across nationalities and religions -- just dont matter. Ultimately, it all depends on the individual. If I have a problem with a Punjabi man or a Czech man or a Russian one, it will be because as a human being he leaves much to be desired. It's not because I think any less of his country or his state or his ancestral history. I rest my case.

From sri

July 4, 2009 12:43 AM
@ Sushmita: Yes i agree with you completely... listing other peoples' shortcomings as a response to our own only pushes us farther from the solution... it's a refusal to face a problem and unwillingness to deal with it. One thing that really drives nuts about our ppl is... 'burning effigies'. I mean how does burning a cardboard picture of Kevin Rudd in ahmedabad, help the poor Indian students in Australia? If Harbhajan and Hayden have an on-field spat we burn Ponting's photo in Bhopal... Somehow an onfield exchange turns into a racial debate (Symonds is also to blame for it) and suddenly the whole country bursts into tears alleging that the mean Aussies are bullying us...and everyone from Gandhi to Subhash chandra bose is invoked in the ensuing debate. We take the moral high ground on every issue... I remember a certain leading advertising guru chastising the Indian high comissioner to Australia on national television for 'not leading the students in a procession through the streets of melbourne herself'. He was also berating the Australian high comissioner to India by saying that Indians should teach the Australians a lesson by wielding our 'Newly acquired Economic strength against them (How the hell are we suppossed to do that i dont know)... Inane activism, and comic martyrhood :) Mind you we should do everything to protect our people in other nations, but we need to take concrete 'real' steps to make our people feel safe. Stupid activism and idiotic martyrs can and will achieve nothing, except a wastage a of public space, time and money. And before we cry foul about racism, lets clean up the mess in our own country... The stupid physical violence aimed at pushing north indians out of maharashtra was very racist. The damage it did to the public psyche was very real... we chose to do nothing about that, and i came across a great number of poeple across all the economic strata secretly condoning the move... need i say more? The horrible rapes and the robberies that foreigners face in all states of India is as bad as what our students face in Australia,... i remember the case of this particular British girl in goa, she was raped and killed, the police couldnt have been more unhelpful... the matter was closed after inconclusive forensic examination... Arent foreigners targetted because they look and behave different from 'us'... isnt this racism? The great Aryan-Dravidian North Indian/South Indian debate is also a form of racism... i mean dude!.. does it really matter if your skin is lighter than mine??? isnt it whats on the inside that counts? Whole political parties and politicians in various regions owe their existence to this debate, what a waste of time, energy and resources on something that is at best a marginal difference between the various ppl of the nation. Mr Muthalik of Sri Ram Sene said that ppl from all over the country come to mangalore to study and 'corrupt' the local girls, so he taught them a 'lesson', isnt this racism, chauvinism, regionalism and inane activism all rolled into one?? We choose to turn a blind eye to all these real issues which are singing our country's bottom, instead choosing to self righteously shout that the white man never gives us our due... I mean the British may have colonised a quarter of the land and a fifth of the world's peoples... but the sun set on the empire over 60 years ago :), shouldnt we get real and apply ourselves to our own very real problems, and forget about them ? I mean a lot of water has passed under the bridge... :-I

From sushmita

July 4, 2009 11:41 AM
Sri, you summed it up perfectly. In fact, the reason why anyone could imagine that there was a racist streak to my blog post just goes on to show how we get caught up in a mob frenzy. Deep down we are either insecure or have nothing better to do than jump on to any "Down with so and so" bandwagon. We cannot take anything at face value -- and will invariably find some deep meaning when none exists actually. That explains why crowds gather at a drop of a hat anywhere and everywhere in India, lol! Everyone loves a good conspiracy theory. Most times, there is no conspiracy, but who cares? After going through all the vitriol and the conjectures, I am tempted to think that maybe some people cannot come to terms with the fact that women can go to a bar and talk about men they fancy. And Sri, you are right about us being racist -- and of course, we'll live in denial. At least half our population will gladly marry a 'White' rather than an Indian from a different religion. We call Anglo-Indians in our country "dingos" very openly; we call North Easterners "Chinks"; we call homosexuals "chakkas"; and we call Blacks "kaalus". The Brits may have been colonialists, but when Prince Harry said "Paki" in jest, he had to publicly apologise. Btw, how do you think the international community would have reacted if George W had stamped his foot petulantly and said, "I bombed Iraq... but hey, once upon a time Hitler organised concentration camps... and also, there is genocide happening in Rwanda... So why blame me?"

From M

July 5, 2009 12:20 PM
Sushmita , You were just talking about different stereotypes here. What is your point ? Do you agree that men from Delhi are the worst ? To be honest , I do not exactly know what you were trying to say in your last three posts. You in some of your earlier posts have implied that the average Indian man on a whole has a problem but yet did not talk about the negative points of other men maybe because you hardly know about them . So , that does not make it right to just talk about the negative points of Indian men and to talk as if white men were God's gift to mankind without even dating one. I rest my case with you . Do I have to tell you what I had a problem with a million time? Good luck and live in your own world of illusions .

From M

July 5, 2009 12:48 PM
Seriously , I do not understand you guys . When did I say everything was right with India and I agree that India has a lot of problems . Foreigners are targeted in India not because of racism because many men in India have twisted conceptions of white women because of what they see in childish adult films . Oh by the way , the British girl was high on drugs. Of course , that does not justify raping her and I am not one of those guys who think that a girl is begging to be raped in any circumstance . But, don't you think that women have to be careful too who they are with and who they trust ? I have no problem with women drinking too . However, my problem is not with pointing out problems in India. You are free to do that as much you want . I talk about problems with my country too . What I have a problem with is hypocrisy . You talking as if white men are angels when most of you hardly know who the white man is . Stick to the problems India has and don't imply that white men or the white society is better without knowing much about it . By the way , Sushmita ( the wise girl ) , half the Indian women would marry a white man eh ? Do you speak for yourself or all ? lol

From M

July 5, 2009 9:59 PM
Also , when someone has a problem with what you say because you see only see one side of the story , it is because that person has nothing else to do or is insecure yet when you say sing praises about western men when you hardly know them and at the same time criticize men from your own country , it is all fine . You do not need to be a genius to understand what I had a problem with and it was not criticism of how many Indian men were or how India was but the way you did it in that , you sang praises of the white man without being the best person to do that . In short , you praised white men at the expense of Indian men when you hardly know what the true white man is . By the way Sushmita , my sincere advice to you . Do not marry an Indian man or have a relationship with one . Make sure if and when you have a relationship , it is with a white man . After 5-10 years , when you are wiser , do make a comeback and let me see if you still have the same opinion . Now to you Sri , You talk about people raising a hue and cry about racism in Australia when there are many problems in India . I agree that there are problems in India but what are the people who faced racism in some other country supposed to do ? Are they supposed to say , let us stop problems in our country and then let us complain ? Is there a problem if some people in India support them too ? Of course , burning effigies and public property won't change anything but peaceful demonstrations are their choice . Now , if you will excuse me ..

From Abhiroop Banerjee

July 6, 2009 1:54 AM
Fun post! Vintage SITC :)

From rakesh

July 7, 2009 1:42 PM
M,am not a sushmita fan.However I've become your fan after observing how stoutly you defended your viewpoint.I mean it.This is a very big quality.

From M

July 7, 2009 2:11 PM
Oh I am honoured then to have the ideal Indian man join my fan club .

From Ghumakkad

July 7, 2009 6:11 PM
I saw this post had 155 comments and I read thru. the post thinking that there must be something very special about this one... ...going thru the comments later on I found that pot had so many comments just coz of "M". whew! what an enthu. cmomentator

From Ghumakkad

July 7, 2009 6:11 PM
I saw this post had 155 comments and I read thru. the post thinking that there must be something very special about this one... ...going thru the comments later on I found that pot had so many comments just coz of "M". whew! what an enthu. cmomentator

From rakesh

July 8, 2009 1:54 PM
I am not so sure about being an 'ideal indian male',but yes i am ur fan.coz in my view an ideal indian male is not mature enough.for example,i am 43 yrs old and while living,as a forced bachelor in delhi,am looking out for a girlfriend.a friend of mine said earnstly that i am doing something against great indian ethos and that its not what an ideal indian male should do.i mean expect to have a girlfriend and being married simultaneously. waiting to see what ppl comment on this.

From M

July 8, 2009 4:27 PM
Do you want to two time on your wife or do you just want a girl friend ? There is a difference between a girlfriend and a girl friend . Or are you just a troll ?

From sri

July 8, 2009 5:58 PM
Rakesh... Kya kar raha hai dost...!!! If your wife reads this you are dead :p

From SHAKESPEARE

August 13, 2009 2:14 AM
ANAGRAM of M's fav. phrase - "I am not the one who.." = A non-white to home

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