Is Mrs Shiney Ahuja a good Indian wife? - Still single in the city

Is Mrs Shiney Ahuja a good Indian wife?

Sushmita Bose - Sunday, July 12, 2009 2:17 PM

Two days ago, I got an email from a follower of this blog -- Atish Saha -- saying he's looking forward to a post on consensual sex vs rape -- and he's quoted the Shiney Ahuja case as a reference point.

And a couple of weeks ago, I got an email from a friend in the US who is a fan of Shiney's (yes, he has fans!). She first asked me if I'd seen Gangster -- she fell in love with Shiney after she watched it, she informed me. She also said she couldn't believe that he had up to "no good", and felt strongly he was being framed.

Yes, I wrote back to her, I have seen Gangster; in fact, I even have the DVD stashed away at Tiger's place (I've kept some of my belongings at his place -- since he generously asked me to abuse his hospitality). It had some nice songs, and Shiney wasn't too bad in it, come to think of it.

But I don't think Shiney is being framed. It's entirely logical to believe he could have been framed. That was my first reaction too. It must have been consensual sex, I had thought ("How can any woman in her right mind not want to have sex with him?" someone right here in Dubai had remarked when the episode unfolded -- and, of course, that's a very subjective point of view), and then the victim thought she can make some easy money.

My reasoning was simple: Shiney had to be off his rockers to imagine he could rape his maid and get away with it, being the public figure he is.

As it turned out, I was wrong. Medical reports clearly suggest a forced sexual attack. So maybe Shiney is off his rockers. And now that he is cosying up to gangster Abu Salem in jail, I have more reason to believe he should be locked up inside a sanatorium.

I didn't quite get exactly what Atish wanted me to post on. Was he asking me if I thought he should have been set free if it had been proved it was not rape, but consensual sex? Yes, obviously. Personal morals are personal morals, and if Shiney was having consensual sex with anybody else other than his wife with who he lives with, well, then, it's not a nice thing, but that's an issue he has to sort out with his wife, not with anybody else.

What has stunned me the most about the incident is the fact that Shiney's wife (I forget her name) has suddenly gone ballistic proclaiming her love for her husband, and shouting from the rooftops that she is the luckiest woman alive because she has him as her Significant Other. I wonder if she's still going on about the bit on how everybody is hell-bent on ‘framing' Shiney on rape charges and how he is as clean as a whistle; it's a bit foolish saying such things when it has been comprehensively proved that her husband is, in fact, a rapist. I believe a few ladies from the film fraternity have tried talking to her, asking her to get a grip and view things somewhat more realistically. But she continues to rave on relentlessly.

It was, again, in the Shiney Ahuja context that, the other day, we were having a multi-racial conversation. The two Indian women in the group - me and another friend - were in agreement: we both said we'd have walked out on our husbands or partners, with as much dignity as we could have mustered, if it had been proved that our better halves were forcing themselves -- or even being led to force themselves -- on other women the moment our backs were turned.

One of my Spanish friends, at that point, suddenly asked: "Isn't that supposed to be the metier of an Indian woman? To be right behind her man -- whatever he does? To be forgiving even if he does the unthinkable? You are entitled to be angry of course... But then, you have to smile and take him back -- in the larger interest of the family and society at large, right?"

"Well, no..." my Indian friend started defensively. "No longer. We're changing. India is changing."

"Oh come off it," this time it was an American. "I mean, you guys may walk away without a thought, but then you would be considered unconventional. You're not typical Indian women."

"I think that's hogwash," I said very loudly, a bit too loudly. But I was still snuffed out by triumphant strains of: "It's alright if the man sleeps around outside marriage -- the woman will sulk but then come to terms. God forbid if the woman does that; actually, you know what? Indian women never sleep around!"

The conversation changed to something else soon after.

But I was left wondering: who is the Typical Indian Woman? Shiney Ahuja's wife? I don't know, but I could do with some help from all of you.

Share this post: email it! | del.icio.us! | digg it! | newsVine!
229 Comment

From Lucky

July 12, 2009 2:40 PM
Shiney Ahuja's wife is just tring to save her husband wheather or not he is a culprit. that's the nature of Typical Indian Woman ;)

From anita

July 12, 2009 3:00 PM
Great blog! Very interesting stuff! As an Indian woman, I am always at a crossroads as to what to believe in and what not to, whether I am clashing with tradition or not. We say we should not be westernised, yet being a typical Indian would mean embracing the concept of Pati Parmeswar. I would love to know too from people on this forum what the general opinion is about Indian women.

From anita

July 12, 2009 3:02 PM
@Lucky, you mean to say that Indian women should take their husbands sides come what may because he is Pati Parmeswar? Interesting! I noticed the wink!

From jivi

July 12, 2009 5:25 PM
The issue is not about Indian women (- or American women or Spanish women, for that matter- ). It is about the expectation that individuals should adhere to stereotypes however ill or well-founded these may be. Surely the whole purpose of a liberal education - and you, I am sure belong to the category of women who have had a liberal education - is to allow for personal choices? If you had been in Mrs Ahuja's shoes you would probably have reacted in a very different way from the way she did. That is your personal choice exactly in the same way that her defence is her personal choice. Neither you nor she can claim to speak for Indian women, or assume you represent the stereotype whatever that may be. In your place (and this is the choice of behaviour I would have exhibited) I would have evened the conversational field by asking your American friend about abortions, teenage pregnancies and George Bush and your Spanish friend about bull-fighting and Fidel Castro. then, if they had taken the point about generalisations, I might have arrived at a common playing-field where true friendship - between individuals - might become possible.

From sri

July 12, 2009 5:41 PM
I know that this is not what the discussion is about... But what has bothered me through-out is that there are no grevious bodily injuries on the maid (except for bruises in the private parts) ... So I dont think that it was full-blown rape (filmy style) ... My guess is, it might have started with mutual consent somewhat, and didnt likely end when the maid wanted it to (she was really young...) ... But by definition that is rape...

From sri

July 12, 2009 6:14 PM
About Shiney's wife... Mebbe it was not all emotional rhetoric... She might have been advised by the lawyers to behave the way she did... Personally I dont think that an educated woman who has seen the world (I read somewhere that she was living and working alone in NY) would be so blind as to not see the facts of the case. So mebbe she is behaving like this under advisement by her lawyers... But that does mean that she has decided to stick by Shiney in this mess... Her reasons could be anything; she could be doing this for her children, or because she feels that it is expected of an Indian wife to stand by her husband... It is difficult to generalise about the average Indian Woman, but I think that most women earlier would have behaved the way Mrs Ahuja did... I dont know about the younger lot though... mebbe there would be quite a few who WOULD walk out. @ Sushmita & Others who say that they would walk out... I dont think you can say for sure what your reaction would be unless the situation is actually upon YOU (god forbid)...shes been married to him for 14 years and mebbe she just wants to help out this guy for the time being and deal with him at a later stage on a more private platform....

From sushmita

July 12, 2009 6:38 PM
Jivi: yeah, of course, it's abt personal choice finally. you are right... but choice is facilitated by a social environment. I mean, it may be tough for me to do something that I believe in unless i hurt people or rub them the wrong way. That may itself put me off exercising my choice -- esp if I am not financially independent.

From sushmita

July 12, 2009 6:51 PM
Sri: I agree that she's probably being advised by her lawyers. Good point u make when you say "mebbe she just wants to help out this guy for the time being and deal with him at a later stage on a more private platform..." Anita: I think Hindi films used to delineate the whole matter beautifully: u could either be a pati-vrata or a vamp, nothing in between. Thankfully, heroines seem slightly more 'real' these days.

From neha

July 12, 2009 6:51 PM
To sri, Absence of bodily injuries does not mean no rape. its a well documented fact that there could be rape without any bruises/injuries etc. Sadly, it becomes really hard to establish rape in court in such cases. People are less inclined to believe the victim thinking if it was rape, then she should have fought, then she should have alot of injuries. so not true. It might not take much violence for some men to overpower a woman. but sadly for the victim it becomes a case of he says vs she says

From Buddy

July 12, 2009 7:34 PM
Hey ... Guys... Iam sure you might be aware ..that he is kinda well off....! so he can get rid of the same in just few days to months... So chill and lets do something productive..lets peep into our own lives.... Cheers -Buddy

From sri

July 12, 2009 7:45 PM
@ Neha... A full blown rape seems very hard to digest... It would take an absolute sicko to commit a rape where a woman is physically coerced into an act where she is totally unwilling physically and mentally... Maybe as a man it is easier for me to empathise with Shiny, but I do find it extremely hard to believe that the man TOTALLY coerced the victim into the act... and I do believe that there is something called 'being led into the act' or 'the perpetrator believing that he is being given the COME-ON, which gives him the impetus to make the move'... Which could have been the case here ( again this is just conjecture, and probably ill-advised at that ) But I do want to make it very clear that be it 'Full' or 'Half' a rape is a rape... and it is evident that the victim did not want it to culminate the way it did (Sex)... So in all probabilities the guy IS a rapist, and should be punished appropriately.

From Raj

July 12, 2009 9:20 PM
Indian women dont sleep around? hahahahaha. This is the most absurd joke I have heard in a long time.I divorced my wife after I found out that she was fooling around with another man while she was married to me. You want more???? I have a long list of people I personally know, who have been through similar episodes. "Present day" Indian women are the biggest hypocrites in the world!!!!! I say present day because back in our mothers' times, Indian women respected their culture instead of being brainwashed by some western soap they see on TV. And yeah, I can see the change in the attitudes of the Indian women these days. You just need to look at the number of divorces in India these days and your statement about "Indian women changing" is justified. What an article!!!! I pity the guy who marries you.

From Raj

July 12, 2009 9:42 PM
To all my Indian brothers who read this. In this day and age when our Indian women are like any other woman of the world interms of their morals and values, do you really need to get married to an Indian woman? I dont think so especially when there is a choice of so many other ethnicities the world over. I would in fact recommend that you get married to women of any ethnicity but Indian if you want to be taken care of and if you want your marriage to last. There is a higher probability that your marriage would last if you get married to a white lady or a chinese lady.

From Raj

July 12, 2009 9:56 PM
A culture that has withstood the trials of time and foreign invasions for so many centuries, is now on the brink of a collapse thanks to attitude of our youth. Women divorcing like nobody's business, gay rights being enforced as law, extra marital relationships on the rise everywhere, old helpless parents in old age homes, youth who cant even speak a single world of their own mother tongue, forsaking God for the new age term spiritualism, migrations by the dozen to foreign lands forgetting one's roots, when history of bollywood is more important than the history of our nation, when the frontpage news is all about which star raped whom, young women who dont even know how to cook and say it with pride, listening to someone recite their daily life with a drumbeat in the background is music, one vehicle per person in the house because no one can walk or cycle anymore and times when youth cant even recite our national anthem completely. What a pitiful situation our India is in. It hurts me alot. If this is change, I dont want it.I wish I had a remote to take me back in time.

From tara

July 12, 2009 10:00 PM
@Raj: It's men like you who give Indian men a bad name. First of all, why are you comparing a wife's values with that of someone from the earlier generation? You are simply reinstating the stereotype that Indian men always compare their wives with their mothers. Just because you had a bad time with one woman does not mean that you suddenly discover an agenda for yourself and start a propaganda.

From pawandeep

July 12, 2009 10:05 PM
Raj, I totally agree, to say that "Indian women donot sleep around" is a big joke. I too, know many instances of women of present generation, doing this. It can be said, that their percentage would be lesser than that of a man.

From Raj

July 12, 2009 10:07 PM
@Tara. Most Indian men would agree with me. And its not the Indian man who has the bad name, its the Indian woman. What is wrong in comparing present day women's values to women from the earlier generations? How did most women grow up? Didnt they learn something from their parents while growing up? You mean to say whatever our earlier generations did or made, are useless today? My dear friend, in India for centuries we have been following whatever our ancestors did, which is why we had something called "Heritage", what the world didnt have. I have a right to say whatever comes to my mind. Since when has voicing one's own opinions become a propaganda? If you have something to say about my post, say it, instead of pointing your fingers at individuals.

From gopal

July 12, 2009 10:10 PM
Well Mrs. Ahuja is not to share the blame. She has stood by Shiny. What a shame for her family. She is well educated. If a woman in India is to be a Sita, she deserves a Ram. For to sacrifice for Ram and holdsteadfast to him is the religious and cultural essense of Indian women. Shiny has proved to be a Ravan.

From tara

July 12, 2009 10:11 PM
@Raj: You mean you are talking about our heritage that made it possible for us to have erotic sculptures of people having sex with abandon? Yes, it is indeed a rich heritage. It is a pity that we have suddenly become Victorian thanks to the Brits, and following their diktats even after they have left our country.

From pawandeep

July 12, 2009 10:16 PM
Sushmita, I tell you what my office friend sometime discuss with me. He many times talks about his wife. They frequently have arguments about one issue or the other and then according to him, she does not talk to him for many many days .So during this period there is no question of having sexual relationship with her. I have noticed that in this period he is often very depressed( I presume maybe his deprived sexual desires make him depressed) ........When we discussed about this rape in office, his comments were "what will a man do , if his wife does not fulfil the sexual desires of a man". I donot want to justify, what Shiney did, but it could be one of the reason, that made him do this, and probably her wife now realise the mistake and taking his side due to some guilt feeling.

From Raj

July 12, 2009 10:18 PM
Is sex the only thing you can think of when it comes to the heritage of our nation? This was exactly what I was talking about.Atleast those times these kinds of things were limited to sculptures, now it has come out onto the streets in reality. For your information, those Khajuraho sculptures you are referring to, were created by a particular dynasty of India. Its one of a kind. Have you even heard read about it? Do you know why they were created? Read up and then we will continue this discussion.

From Raj

July 12, 2009 10:20 PM
The comment above is for the person named Tara.

From APURVA

July 12, 2009 11:06 PM
Rather than talking about the Indian women or of any other origin I think what more important here is the breach of trust. Infidility is proved not only when the spouse come to know about it, from the very origin it is infidility and whether indian or no indian this will not be accepted. Talkin about the traditional Indian woman then let me ask one question when Goddess Sita accepted her husband God Rama even after she was asked to prove her dignity by agni pariksha who asked that she was doing the right thing or not. Did anyone even asked God Rama that he should trust her and not insult her the way he did. From the very begining of our culture Indians preach trust but accept the fact that its just the preaching that we do. So all my Indian friends if you accept the glory of Indian culture then let us also accept the evils of Indian culture. So I would end by saying that a typical Indian women is the one who believe in absolute trust and would do anything to save her dignity. This is what Shiny's wife did...

From Ash

July 13, 2009 12:07 AM
Remember Bill / Hillary Clinton.... It is a personal choice.... lets not jump to conclusions until the final verdict is out.... Remember the law says innocent until proven guilty.... while the public mentality is always the other way around....

From kiran

July 13, 2009 4:55 AM
First of all if shiney's wife is deciding to stick by her husband's side that is her personal decision. I mean either I think something did happen between his maid and himself, wheither it was consensual or forced, in which case either way he did cheat on his wife and if she is denial about it and not admitting I pity her. Being an educated woman and all she should have more self respect and kick his ass to the curb. People here are saying Indian woman are expected to take this kind of shit from their husbands by default because that is what has been happening for cenuturies and according to some people here that is why Indian soceity has gone topsy turvy and that the advancement of Indian women is responsible for it. I don't think so. Indian men have also changed they are greedy for money and don't want to commit to marriage and even if they get married they are so amibitious and want their wives to work so they can earn double income they don't want to do their duties being the responsible husband and the man they are. I know so many Indian men who force their wives to leave kids in the daycare and force their wives to work like slaves in the house and at work, and take dowry on top of it. Alot of Indian men do respect women and treat them sub human like they don't have any brains. Who knows maybe that's what happened with shiney ahuja since his wife is educated and all, he couldn't dominate her so he had to rape a poor girl who is from a poor background and all. To Raj. Man you make my blood boil. If you were in front of me I'd show what an Indian woman can do. You talk about traditions and all that are part of our heritage and all. I was born and raised in Canada and all my friends and I speak our mother language and we don't cheat on our husbands and know our roots. Who knows maybe your wife cheated on you because you were lacking something and you didn't make her happy, and you talk of culture and traditions yet you are giving advice to other men to marry women of other ethnicites and all. You don't know anything. I grew up in foreign and if you marry a white you chances of having a divorce are almost 100% given. For whites they only live for today and if they decide they can't take you no more they will walk out on you in a second and being married to a white is like a dogs life. Where are you from looks like you know nothing. You call indian women hyprocits just because your wife cheated on you does that make all Indian women bad. Indian guys marry for dowry and only fair skin and they don't care for nothing on the inside, I think you like to lick white ass. State your opinions but no one asked for your advice on who they should marry. From the way you talk I'm convinced your wife must have gone throuhg hell before she decided to venture out. I can only imagine how miserabel she must have been. You say things that aren't true of course people are goig to point fingers at you. Not everything about western culture is bad but unfortunately people in india only follow bad stuff. you want a remote control to go back in time, you're talkng like a mad man, its people like you who create some of the biggest problems I guess you wanted your wife to remain like a slave or something so she kicked you to the curb I guess. I think you're the hyprocrit talks culture and then says to other guys marry whites. Get some help man.

From Raj

July 13, 2009 5:17 AM
@Kiran From your language,everyone here can tell what kind of a person you are :). I have nothing more to say. I guess my words hit all the right notes with you. hahaha

From Raj

July 13, 2009 5:26 AM
@Kiran I missed this part. I can come to Canada if you like. Tell me what you want to do to me. You cant do jack squat!!! Got it? :)Sometimes the truth hurts. People cheat when something is lacking is it? So you are saying that its alright to cheat when something is lacking. Wow.I dont know what culture you have and what your parents have taught you. 2 wrongs dont make a right my dear friend :). My wife was dark skinned :). I dont have to justify anything to you. This is a public forum and everyone has a right to voive their opinions. If you are frustrated with life, there are other options than to character assassinate a person you hardly know :). Relax and take a chill pill ;). I will pray for the unfortunate soul that eventually gets stuck with you or is. If you dont like the white people why are you living in Canada? hahahahaha what a joke you are.

From Raj

July 13, 2009 5:36 AM
@Kiran If you were abroad, you wouldnt say something like "I was born foreign or grew up in foreign". Thats incorrect English. :) Obviously you conned some poor soul into bringing you there and trying to justify yourself.

From kiran

July 13, 2009 5:47 AM
First of all I never condoned cheating I didn't say it was right your wife cheated. But you said a very falst statement that all indian women are hyprocrits which is not true!!! There are alot of indian men who cheat and beat their wives what do you have to say about that. I also said not everything is bad about western culture there are good things you can learn from whites, like if you honestly ask for advice and help they dilaberately wont lead you down the wrong path, they don't get jealous at someone's success or if someone is better off than them in life liks so many indians do got that. I always say one thing you should take the best of Indian culture and western culture and create a good balance which is exactly what my husband and I do. We have a daughter and only one daughter we don't care for having a son because boys and carrying on the family namen and having someone take care of us in our old age, we will give the best to our daughter and make sure she gets all the opportunities that girls are allowed to that weren't at one time. I have been married 10 years to the son of a Indian naval officer and my husband is a real man who knows his roots my father-in-law is decorated naval officer so don't talk to me a about roots and all. I was born in Canada but yet I live in America and my husband is from India normally girls don't give a shit to Indian guys from Indian. In these countries just by have an engineering degree and all doesn't gurantee you will get all beautiful girls. When indian guys from India come here they think some blonde chick will be all over them they will have a big mansion and all the good life. Here we bust our ass day and night to make a live. Girls like me go for guys who are postive minded respect woman have a personality and know how to talk. My husband and I give these whites a run for their money all the time. These whites came and ruled over our motherland for 200 years and now its our turn to teach them a lesson on their soil!!!! And my husband and I do that, I speak English hindi punjabi perfectly we watch old hindi movies believe in our values and culture yet we remain in the present and plan for the future not like you who lives in the past. Being friends with a a white is fine but marrying them is a whole different matter, you don't know but these whites kick their kids out of the house when they are 18 out into the world with no money and you think marriage will last with these kinds of people are you dreaming or something. Yes I live in foreign but I haven't forgotten my roots, and neither has my daughter, or my husband. Just because I live in foreign doesn't mean I will forget my identity. When I said to you your wife cheated on you and all that I didn't condone it, I simply was putting question forth to you that just because she did that that doesn't mean all women are like that, and yest most white women do cheat. Maybe that is news to you. My husband and I are educated forward thinking but we have never forgotten our roots, we don't drink smoke or ever had sex before marriage so that's what my parents have taught me. Looks like you're the one who hasn't learned anythig talking like a mad man going back in time with a remote control fool. By the I have a love marriage, and my husband and I are not of the same state, he isn't punjabi but he is indian, so now my dear friend not frusterated at all.

From kiran

July 13, 2009 6:03 AM
Just one last one word, you talked about my english this is a blog I'm not writing some essay for college that my grammar and spelling has to be correct, when writing in forums I make mistakes all the time. I knew since you had nothing else to pick on you would do that. I can make out that you're from India so obviously I will use language in which you can understand, duh! Looks like I really got to you so you are just picking at any small thing, as if all indian men are innocent. Is that what you want us all to believe. Why the hell would I lie about being in a country other than india huh you tell me since you think you know it all. You stupid I was born here so how can anyone bring me here are you on drugs or something. The kind of problems guys like you have are typcial in arranged marriages but that's not the case with me. That's what happens when you marry for money and citizenship and all that. I don't want to waste anymore time with a loser like you so one final word. "Even a dog is a lion in its own territory" real people know how to fight unlike you who want to crawl into their shells and complain about the advancement of women.

From Raj

July 13, 2009 6:15 AM
Like I said before, I have no personal interest in the life of some stranger who posts idiosyncrasy online :). You are basically a woman who is full of yourself. Most women are like you these days. Its all about themselves. Anyone who reads your post will agree with me. You are somehow trying to justify yourself to me. I have no interest. I give a damn what you are or who you are or what you have done or where yo stand in life today. I dont care if you were the ruler of Timbuktu. And, I dont need to hear anything being said about white people from you when you yourself are living in the west, working for them and eating your daily meals thanks to them. White women may do lots of things in their lives. That is their culture and it is well accepted the world over. Thats exactly my point. Why should you take the best of the western and Indian culture? What is lacking in our Indian culture for you to borrow unacceptable things from them? This is why I call all of your kind hypocritical.:) You didnt like the remote control bit huh? Know why? You were never a real Indian and you never will be!!! :) You dont care about our nation or our culture. You talk about working your ass off. Do you know how many people in India do much more and still have nothing of their own? you have no idea.You contradict yourself, you say that I live in the past of India and then say that I support whites :). And finally smoking or drinking doesnt make a person bad. Its hatred and negative thoughts that make a person bad. Did you know Albert Einstein smoked?Think about it. :) My dear friend you know nothing about what life is. Its easy to sit in your leather chair near the computer and make foolish statements by moving your fingers. Go out there and face the real stuff.

From kiran

July 13, 2009 6:22 AM
Since you're so stupid I'll ask you more clearly, do you mind explaining what people from abroad are supposed to talk like? I mean what is their english supposed to sound like or how they should word themselves so they sound more western? I guess you don't know Canada is a British commonwealth country so obviously dimwit we are going to have the same influence as what India has got and our english is going to resemble indians in someway, or do you have some kind of special powers where just be looking at the computer screen you can tell where someone is from?? I think your're just mad because you couldn't make it life that's all no woman wants you so you know want to try your luck with chinese woman. They don't even freaking have any boobs or and shape to their body, maybe you couldn't "get it up" so who knows maybe your wife left you because of that. No one can live like a celibate all their life. Maybe you're the one who cheated on her and now you're just trying to blame women for it. As if you're going to come here and talk about your faults, most indian guys never admit to their own shortcomings.

From Raj

July 13, 2009 6:31 AM
@Kiran You Stupid imbecile pig headed woman!!! Listen up one last time!!!! :) I didnt say that you need to be a english scholar to post on forums. But for me and Im sure everyone like here in the forum who speaks any language with the correct lucidity they will understand that you are a FOB. :) FOB = Fresh off the boat FYI. I didnt say you lying. I am saying that you are not born here in the west. I am positive about that. Dont assume that everyone has an arranged marriage :). And like I said, I give a damn about your personal life. Your parents should have give you a couple under your chin when you were young and you would know how to speak to people. Even a lion would stand back infront of me .:) You dont know anything about me, so I leave it at that. What a silly woman you are. You cant even carry a conversation straight without personal attacks. No wonder your husband is living in happiness away from you in India. hahahahah

From Raj

July 13, 2009 6:40 AM
@Kiran People who are stupid, feel others are stupid :). Again, everyone on here understands your culture the way you speak. Please go on and on. You represent the true current age Indian woman. You are just proving my point. Guys, are you listening? :)We would all like to hear what else an Indian woman thinks. :) hahaha Like I said, if you are frustrated with your life, take a cold shower or go join a ashram. Atleast let someone benefit from you. I am sure your parents kicked you from their house the moment you turned 18, maybe even before that :). I am glad that I have managed to get some sense into your thick skull even if it meant I had to listen to your nonsense even though you wouldnt understand now. :) A simple thank you would do. hahahaha

From kiran

July 13, 2009 6:42 AM
Lets not even start about the bad points of Indian culture. By the way your last post had tons of grammatical mistakes so I guess you must be some farmer. Smoking and drinking doesn't make a person bad??? So I guess going to temple and praying to Gd everyday must be according to you. Do you even believe in God?? No I don't think so. You sound like a corrupted politician who wants to drag his country backwards. The world is moving forward and you want to live in the 15th century. That just shows you have no balls. You said smoking and drinking aren't bad, then how is taking one or two good things of western culture make you bad or western or an outsider then??? Huh??? Indian girls even today in poor villages are suppressed. In india if your father is a rich powerful man then the son takes advantage of that postion and waits for his father to die so he can inherit his money, but he won't do anything on his own. In this country everyone has to make their own identity regardless of who their father or mother is and has to reach to top on his own merit. This is where indian culture lacks. Poor people keep on having kids who they can't afford to feed and they won't give them a proper education and send them out to work what about that. Girls in our country are far safer but in India young beautiful girls are preyed upon. India has got one of the highest rape statistics in this world what do you have to say about that??? People don't want to have girls because marrying them off costs to much dowry so they get treated like shit by their parents and they will just marry them off to any idiot off the street what about that??? Indians say one thing do another thing think another thing unlike whites what about that. What drives people to come abroad is the corruption and politics in India. In these countries you have a chance to make on your own, in indian companies you have to like your boss's ass and impress him to get promotions unlike here what about that??? Girls' are not treated equally because of age old customs and I guess to someone like you culture is about shutting our mouths and taking all the shit from every angle then we're nice girls but if we take the stand and fight for our independence and kick everyone to the curb then we are bitches. There is no way I'm letting anyone walk over me just because I'm a girl. You talk about no knowing what life is, you're one frusterated soul who is just mad because you don't have anything of your own. your male ego is shattered someone else came along seduced your wife and now you're wondering where you went wrong. Here is some advice for you viagra!! And learn how to respect woman, many great people of the world believe this and in India as well "behind every successful man is a woman" Women are the laxmi of the house if you don't respect that you will never have peace in your life. Anyone can make out from the way you talk that you are a woman hater and I'm starting to understand why your wife must have left you cheating may not be right, but she did the right thing by letting go of a loser like you.

From kiran

July 13, 2009 6:52 AM
Would you mind showing me in previous posts where I said my husband is living in India. I guess you can't read english or don't understand it properly. My husband is right here with me. The way you talk shit about women just proves that you are the FOB here not me. Guys from here who were my school mates don't talk about women like that I guess you're just mad that you can't fit your scrawny dark ass into our society no wonder you talk about going back in time. I guess your dreams got all shattered and why are you yelling in capital letters did I get your blood pressure all high. poor soul you. Had your mother given you back to back slaps and shown taught you to be a real man and broken your face when you were young you wouldn't be thinking this way. You're just mad after reading where I stand in comparison to you and you can't take the truth, Oh you're right the truth is bitter so loser take your own advice oh I forgot you're the hypocrit here. Take care and next time try to keep your woman happy that is if you get one.

From Raj

July 13, 2009 7:05 AM
Yeah I am a farmer from India who works here in the west to help the locals here grow their apples :).From your words, it seems like you feel farmers have no value? Is that right? Its thank to them that our India is what it is today. Its because of them that you are even able to sit their in your comfy home and talk to me. Majority of Indian economy is thanks to our farmers. Yeah, I may have missed a few words here and there but no grammatical errors. Sentence construction was incomplete. :) I dont claim to be a person born in the west. Please forgive this poor english speaking Indian hahahaha. I didnt understand the smoking vs god part. Kindly explain the same. Again like I said I have no desire to share my personal life with a stranger on the internet. Its none of your business whether I believe in God or the devil. :) Country backwards? Have you heard about sanskrit? Im sure not. Do you know that according to technology it is well accepted that Sanskrit is the most suited language for the computer? How would you know? You live in your own shallow little world with nothing to look forward to. You have no idea what India was in the past. Do you know that the sanskrit vedas contain all the science humankind needs to know ever? Where is sanskrit today? Im sure you teach your kids the piano or the ballet. What is the relationship between me wanting to be a part of a great Indian past and me having the balls? I didnt understand that bit. For your information my dear friend, smoking orginated in India. Read up. Obviously your only hobby is to argue online. Try and get some knowledge in the process. Indian men wait for their fathers to die to take everything from them? Which bollywood movie did you get this story from? :) So have you reached the top in Canada? Ok fine. So what have you done for others around you after you reached what you want? My god. What an ignorant fool you are. Why do poor people in India force their kids to go out and work? Do you even know? Its because if everyone in a poor family doesnt work, then one or two meals would be missed and they would starve. What world do you live in. Why dont you do something about it? :) Instead of shooting off your big mouth. Your country? Which is that? Canada? I thought you are Indian. hahahaha What a hypocrite. Guys are you listening? hahahha. If India is corrupt , if women are treated unfairly in India, if the poor are wrong, do something about it instead of sitting on your fat ass infront of the computer and jabbering foolishness. Keep fighting my dear friend. One day when you have spoken enough and fighting, life will make you fall flat on your face. :) Again, I have no interest in speaking about my personal achievements or my life to some low life stranger on the net who keeps speaking nonsense. :) Woman behind every successful man is the mantra of the past. Now, its there is a woman behind every unsuccessful man.hahahaha. You call women like you a Laxmi???????? Please dont insult Laxmi. Again, I dont need to prove anything to you. I dont need to justify myself to any stranger. I have people who stand by me. :) Im sure you dont.

From Raj

July 13, 2009 7:16 AM
Like I said before and I am repeating again and again into your thick skull, I give a damn about your personal life or where your husband is :). If I cant read English, would I be responding? :) All you talk about is personality of me. Its like you have some personal interest in my life. You have nothing to say about the real essence of what I started. If you had half the interest in the suffering of our countrymen and the culture of our great land, you would do well.

From kiran

July 13, 2009 7:34 AM
Yes I know about all about sanskrit. You say you don't care about knowing about my personal life, then why did you bring your personal example into this forum and try to influence other guys based on just your one personal experience. You just said my mantra of "behind every successful man is woman" is a thing of the past but you yourself just said you want to go back in time and remain there. In our families it is believed that girls are laxmi and as for doing something about some of the situations in India. Like I just said poor people shouldn't be having so many kids if they are starving rather they shouldn't be starving. We have relatives in India my father-in-law who is there himself curses these poor people saying why the hell do they keep on having so many kids if they can't afford them. When I talked about smoking and God what I mean to say was you see nothing wrong with smoking and drinkng and all that, which guys like you usually don't but if I ask you to go to the temple and pray you won't do that because from the way you talk I can make out you don't believe in God. Otherwise you wouldn't be insulting women so much, you just insulted Goddess Laxmi that tells me right there what kind of crap you are. No I don't teach silly things like ballet and piano or other shit to my daugher. I read her the Mahabaharat and all the Amar chitra comics that my husband got for her, which you should be knowing about that educate the young generation about Indian culture and heritage in a simple but fun way they can understand, by now you should be able to make out that I don't rely on silly bollywood movies to learn about reality. I never mentioned anything about Albert Einstein so where did he come from. I never said all things about India are bad and not all things are good about Western culture. About your sanskrit and the vedas, yes I know. I don't believe in modern medicine if I or my family gets sick I do believe the 5000 year old ayurvedic healing indian system, you think I don't know anything. I very much know about the best thing india has ever given the world in terms of bliss and that is yoga, but I'm sure you dont do that since you like to smoke and drink from the way you sound. I know there are lots of good things about indian culture but there are lots of bad things which I choose not to follow. So next time leave your sob story out of here. foolish impotent man. Sit in gyan mudra and repeat om until you calm down, you have serious issues you need to deal with.

From kiran

July 13, 2009 7:42 AM
One last thing you said I just sit here and talk rubbish and don't do anything to help the poor. Whenever I have come to India, I always make it a point to bring clothes and other stuff and give to the poor give the girls of poor families who don't have good clothes to wear. We are so lucky in this country that everythig is high quality. This has been a tradition in our family that any clothes that are no longer worn or in excellent condition we donate and give to the poor. You mentioned something about an ashram, that is one of my dreams, if I ever get enough money which my husband and I will we will start an ashram and shcool JUST FOR GIRLS of poor families since they are always at a disadvantage because statistics from all over the world are saying boys are falling behind girls in education so no point in wasting money on them, does that answer your freaking question. And yes we will return to our motherland one day got it. So what have you done for your country lately nothing I'm sure except degrade women.

From Raj

July 13, 2009 8:14 AM
@kiran You are full of crap lady. I dont have the patience or time to converse with someone as ignorant and foolish as you or someone as dirty minded as you. You call yourself a lady? So much of filth comes out of you. Everything I said is justified in this forum after reading what you have had to say. I hope someone else continues where I left off. Obviously you have a lot of time to keep talking nonsense, I dont. I am done with this. I hope you rot in hell :).

From Ajnabi

July 13, 2009 8:18 AM
Kiran is a prostitute. I know her. I have slept with her.

From Sneha

July 13, 2009 8:22 AM
Some of the things saying on this page is bad. Woman should known to keep quite their tongue not like Kiran.

From Dr.Spook

July 13, 2009 8:41 AM
Sushmita: no need to be surprised that shineys wife supports him. nobody wants to admit - even to themselves - that they chose and stayed married to a rapist for such a long time. so she is hoping as hell that her husband of xx years is not as rotten as it seems so that she need not question her own judgement and ability to pick. i am sure she is also thinking of her kids - she does not want them to carry the stigma of having a rapist father. btw i think shiney should get thrown in prison for this - he can experience rape first hand (and it will exercise the newly decriminalized article 377).

From Dr.Spook

July 13, 2009 8:42 AM
Sneha: i agree. i dont know why some people get so worked up here. sushmitas articles have this polarizing effect i think

From Patricia

July 13, 2009 11:23 AM
Hey everyone, really nice article by Susmita. I understand what she means exactly when talking about an Indian women culture, my Mom till today stands by my Dad, inspite of every mistake he has done in his life, but than I have turned to be opposite to what my mum has been, yet I too am an Indian Women. Well, the point is not about Indian women anymore, becoz very few sentiments of our culture and history remains in India. A lot of western influence is around………….so lets not talk about Indian women or not, but certainly Mrs. Ahuja, is supporting her husband like one person in here said cud be the lawyers decision. Well in her heart she is aware, and her consciousness will always hurt her for what has happened. Well Shiney has committed a crime, whether rape or consensual sex, he is committed wrong and we all know that. Regarding all Indian women are cheats that statement from one of the writers in the blog is wrong, this I say with few experiences and people I personal know and have admired. Off course it sounds funny to hear that "Indian women do not sleep around, but again not all Indian women …………………… Remember we are humans first and than an Indian or any other tag.

From Ashwin

July 13, 2009 12:18 PM
@Raj: You need to see a doctor. And I really don't hope you rot in hell, because I know you will! I support you Kiran, don't give an idiot like Raj so much importance.

From sushmita

July 13, 2009 1:00 PM
Dr Spook: My idea was not to polarise opinions and descend into to name-calling forum -- I was just wanting to know others' comments on whether they think Indian women too have a stereotype. This really wasnt meant to be a rant. And I don't know why everything has to get so hugely personalised.

From kamal

July 13, 2009 1:05 PM
I don't see much sense in the heated debate above which eventually turns into a man v/s woman war. Posters basically end up trying to generalize Indian man / Indian woman or men and women which in itself is meaningless given the diversity of humans. Do you notice the fact that this generalization and definition of stereotypes increases directly proportional to the outreach of media wrt individuals. And I am inclined to think that is at an all time high when every individual can reach out to the world by blogging and writing elsewhere; but these things started with the onset of traditional media itself. Instead of talking about stereotypes (which is a thing of the past - mostly about things ppl accept without an ounce of brainshare), let's rather talk about individual morality, and see how close you hit it. I feel anyone who asks me "Is this how a typical Indian {man/woman/person} is?" is an idiot and does not know what they're talking about. A wrong question does not deserve an answer at all, let alone huge endless and meaningless debate! You must first think and ask the right questions! If the people debating here with stereotypes and generalized subjects think they are any good, the sooner you realize that you are no better than the person who asks the meaningless question, the better. :) Cheers!

From sushmita

July 13, 2009 1:25 PM
Patricia/Kamal: Thanks for your inputs, they seem so rational and informative. Yes, finally, it's about fidelity and values -- whether they came from men or women, Indians or Eskimos. My question was: do we still pander to the stereotype that if a woman forgives a man for his 'moral' indiscretion it's a wonderful thing, but if a man forgives a woman for the same, he's a loser?

From sushmita

July 13, 2009 1:30 PM
Pawandeep: Obviously, Indian women -- just like Indian men, and men and women from all over the world -- sleep around. It's wrong to sit on judgement on that till such time that 'immorality' exists elsewhere in the world. If a woman is sleeping around, she is sleeping around with some man, right? You need both hands to clap.

From Dr.Spook

July 13, 2009 1:31 PM
Sushmita: i know u did not mean to polarize opinions. yet somehow most of ur recent posts in the last 6 months have had exactly this effect. please sit back and think why this is so.

i can point out 3 of my own humble observances: (i) u seem to always offer ideas and opinions from a very liberal end of the spectrum (nothing wrong with that of course but it causes strong emotional reactions from people in the middle or the far right) (ii) there is not much empathy here among ppl for opinions which may differ from their own. everyone is trying very hard to force their own opinion based on their own very limited life experiences and somehow "win" the debate (if such a thing is possible). (iii)a lot ppl here (including yourself) love to generalize and stereotype causing again a lot of strong emotional responses. I dont say this to hurt anyone. these are just a few stupid observations from a spooky doctor

From Dr.Spook

July 13, 2009 1:41 PM
sushmita: learned people and scriptures say that to wrong is human but to forgive is divine. so why r we worried about whether it is a man or woman who is forgiving someone? why not simply appreciate anyone who has the power to forgive another person?

From Sonu

July 13, 2009 2:02 PM
Hi Sushmita:I've been reading your blogs for a few months now. From the previous two posts onwards, I've wanted to leave a comment but when I read the kind of personal atacks a few people were making at each other, I decided against it. This time too, I'm shocked at the kind of conversations going on here, I enjoy reading this blog and the comments (usually), I hope it doesn't turn into a forum for people to make personal attacks at each other. Is there a way to moderate these kind of conversations so we can ensure that participants follow some decorum? Back to the topic, I don't think what Mrs. Anupam Ahuja is displaying is "typical Indian wife behaviour". Hillary standing by Clinton after the Lewinsky episode, I think is a good example of how these stances are not confined to India alone.Hillary was lauded by a large majority of the American population for standing by her husband and she even got some political milage out of it.My reasoning for Anupam's stance is that she wants to support him in public and stand by him now, what she does later on and in private is not something she wants to talk about now and whatever bone she needs to pick with him, she can do in private. But the way she's been going about supporting him defies logic and it definitely sounds like she's in denial and is being very emotional at the cost of sounding stupid. I'm not certain if we have a prototype for a good Indian wife these days. I am married and have a few married friends, who have had affairs outside of their marriage, at some point in the past. Their husbands knew about those and while they were traumatized at that point, they've managed to eventually put it behind them and work it out and stay married. One of the ladies that I am speaking of is a great mom (I'd like to be like her when I have a kid), is very spiritual, I also think she and her husband are a great couple as the've been with each other through thick and thin. My views on marriage and fidelty were very black and white to begin with, but they've greyed as I began to know more and more diverse people. Another married colleague (a Shiney fan) remarked, how he was a bechara and how testosterone levels are pretty high in the morning, so he must've just given into the impulse.Indian wives, like any others come with all kinds of mindsets, so it'll be incorrect to slot them into a mould. Your colleagues need to know people first hand rather than draw conclusions from silly stereotypes drawn from outdated Indian movies.

From Anand

July 13, 2009 2:28 PM
@Sonu: I agree with your views - life is never black and white - it is different shades of gray! I too have severely limited my comments on this blog due to the same reason as yours.

From Ryan

July 13, 2009 2:43 PM
blogs are so overrated...it's funny that a regular rape case which needs to be condemned is moving mountains , traversing generations, questioning history and glorifying mythology...Even the silly wife(how could you marry someone named shiney)didnt know that her simple act of courage and support would encourage dialogue of this proportions ...Kiran, raj and some other people wt tangents have you taken...unless you getting paid for this..stop the mess.Get a job

From TheJoker

July 13, 2009 3:23 PM
Did Raj rape Kiran or was it the other way round? Coz by the time you come to the end of the page only two ppl are crying here while the rest of us are laughing our a***es off to this ridiculous, extremist and chauvinistic line of thought being propagated by both. Only that they have met each others match. Maybe Raj you should propose to Kiran... Sushmita nice article btw...

From Greasy Individual

July 13, 2009 3:27 PM
Shiney Ahuja is probably at the receiving end of some consensual sex in prison, even as we speak!

From Greasy Individual

July 13, 2009 3:28 PM
Shiney Ahuja is probably at the receiving end of some consensual sex in prison, even as we speak!

From sushmita

July 13, 2009 4:13 PM
Sonu/Anand: Absolutely right, the areas of grey override everything else. That's why it's crazy we keep believing that SOMETHING someone said could mean JUST THAT and nothing else. Why do we jump to definitive conclusions so easily? Dr Spook: the problem is people assume I am stereotyping -- because that serves their purpose to put forward their views. For instance, I did a post on Danny Vettori being better-looking than someone in the Indian cricket team: that was immediately looked upon as being a racist comment!!!

From ani

July 13, 2009 4:17 PM
i had asked the same question to one of my punjabi colleagues and she said (about shiney's wife's stand) ' such things do not affect them at all. May be because shiney's wife knows men (not everybody, most of them) are like this only.

From Svani

July 13, 2009 7:15 PM
Sushmita...as i was reading ur artical I somehow smell the same sense "Sterotype" coz the first thing is 1. We as an india are changing....but not every one is my dear...,,if u go to village then u will know it's only city ppl who r pretanding to change but actually from heart they are not, 2. who is the Typical Indian Woman? Shiney Ahuja's wife? every one is different n forsure every individual thinks differently....what is wrong if u want to support ur other half...may be she feels she still can go a long way with him even though he commited that crime...sometime what happens is even though you are well educated and morden minded person you just can't walk away from the situtation....may be as earlier some body said she was to support him in public n face the fact & deal him in private...ani way no one is guilty unless proven...so let's not judge either maid or shiney ahuja from here as we were not there when the incident happened .....let hope justic will be done for the both party .......hope for peace n luv

From Kiran

July 13, 2009 8:44 PM
It sounds to me as though everyone is saying whether shiney ahuja did this or not, whether this was forced or consensual, that she should demonstrate that she is a good cultured indian wife and just forget about what he did because by default that is what is expected of indian women. That is the tone I'm picking up in here. What if she had done the same thing would you have condoned her actions. If a man does it its okay because he is just reacting to his natural biological urges and its normal for a man, but if a woman does it she's *** or something. I don't condone cheating or extra marital affairs of either gender. If there are issues between a husband and wife that need to be sorted out they should talk about it face to face not just take the easy way out or spontaneously act in the moment and not think of the future consequences or just expect that your wife will forgive you. Why should any woman have to put up with a cheating husband, because if he does it once he will do it again. If its wrong for a woman to cheat its also just as wrong for a man to cheat. As far as shiney ahuja is concerned we are still not getting the hard cold facts of what exactly happened that day, to me its not whether if was forced or consensual that matters as it does if he did have sex with this maid he cheated period! To me that is enough that his wife should kick him to the curb. Someone here mentioned about bill and hilary clinton and all that just because she did that doesn't mean all women here in US do that and doesn't mean its right. We recently had another case just a few weeks back where this governor of state had an extra marital affair and it was because of his wife that he became something she was a millionaire before she married him and she launched his career and made him what he is and she was a really good wife they have 4 kids and when she found out she kicked him out of the house and then he gave an interview before the press that he had cheated and how sorry he was crying and all that but his wife was not standing beside him. So not all woman take that kind of shit. Did it ever occur to any of you maybe shiney ahuja's wife is supporting him only because he just maybe 100% innocent and never had forced or consensual sex witht he maid and that's why she is supporting him. She has lived and worked in new york is educated, I mean if he has cheated on her she should throw him out of her life and if he is truly innocent which we don't know then maybe that's why she is sticking up for him. Otherwise if he is guilty and yet she is denying it I feel very sorry for her then. We have a saying here in US what is good for the goose is good for the gander, what is good for a man is good for woman and what is bad should be bad for both.

From kiran

July 13, 2009 8:58 PM
To sneha do you mind telling me what it is that I should keep my mouth shut about. Sounds to me like you are a male ass licker. You should be ashamed of yourself in spite of being a woman siding with the men. I guess you would like to have your husband cheat on you and you'd like it even more if he beat you up that's what it sounds to me like. Go back and read what that raj wrote he called Indian women whores and said they are characterless and that all indian guys should marry whites and chinese so that their marriages last. He doesn't have a clue about what he's talking about. Start living in the present people, I know 70% of india still resides in villages but they are not the ones who are leading the society or running the country now are they. The truth is this world is being led by the educated class not the poor illterate class. Just because that raj's wife left him all of a sudden all indian woman have become bad so I guess from the way he's talking all Indian men must be shit or some kind of womanisers. He's just mad because I made him face the truth. Somebody here said that shiney ahuja may have cheated since his wife wasn't fulfilling his sexual desires so its justified or something, then I guess its right this raj's wife cheate on him, that's why he is so against sex, and want's to go back in time, when woman had no demands and just happily let themselves be suppressed by men and never complainedc and now that women or the educated city class is awakening its making these old fashioned timers insecure. Just because guys like raj are complained doesn't mean mean women will back down and not excel. To the person who said I should marry raj, I'm already married happily of my own choice and I wouldn't keep raj as a maid servant in my house, who knows he might want to commit a rape also, oh wait I forgot he can't get it up he's impotent so I guess rape is out of the question. To all the women in here learn how to stick up for selves and have some self respect and stop relying on men to hold your spines up in life. I think most of the people here are from india so my words will not make any sense to any of you. To raj if you like to live in the past why do you use the computer and internet and come to post your shit here, go work in the gutter where you belong.

From Saarah Khann (not an indian)

July 14, 2009 2:13 AM
I was googling for Shiney Ahuja news and landed on this page, I like the article and since I am a liberal I agree to what Sushmita has said, but I wouldn't like to comment on what Indian women are like since I am not one. At Kiran: You really need to get a life woman, you are calling someone impotent when you don't even know that person is a bit harsh actually more than a bit :). And before you start calling me names or start bashing me I just want to make it clear that I don't know this Raj guy and I just felt like telling you to get over it say something constructive rather than bashing people like this. And you don't need to get defensive or justify yourself to people here, take a chill pill :)

From Kiran

July 14, 2009 3:31 AM
To saarah khann I don't need to justify myself. I haven't done anything wrong that I have to do that. This raj was calling all Indian women loose and all that and generalizing about them based on just one bad experience he had with his wife. I wonder why that went unnoticed by you. He said all Indian women are not good he doesn't know all of them and to call them loose isn't that a bit harsh?? I don't know why you didn't pick up on that. Yes I did call him impotent but that was to get his attention and give him a dose of his own medicine. Nobody asked him to come here and talk about his wife's infidelity and start accusing all india women are like his wife, do you think that is right??? I'm not the one who is all lonely who's spouse has run out on or vice versa. I was going to comment on the shiney ahuja case when I saw his comment, and I don't see how any woman with self respect can sit back and not tell him to shut his big trap. He didn't come here to talk about shiney ahuja he never said even word about him, did you notic. So what do you have to say to that looks to me like he's got alot of baggage and going around taking on the Indian woman. If you talk shit you bet I'm going to take a swing at you.

From Kiran

July 14, 2009 4:11 AM
Just a few more words for the shiney ahuja case. I hope his wife isn't supporting him for any other reason other than that he is completely innocent beyond the shadow of a doubt, and that she does indeed know what the facts are and what really happened and isn't just supporting him blindly with out any evidence. However, given all the physical evidence the medical reports that have been conducted on the maid and his DNA matching to the crime scene in question its looking very highly unlikely at this point in time that he is innocent. So I wonder what his wife has got to say on all this. Seeing her confidence in her husband and the way she is supporting him just makes me want to believe that he is innocent and he never had any type of physical intimacy witht this maid, but then all the evidence that has been gathered how can there be two contradictory truths. If I was in shiney ahuja's wife's place I would only support him if he was 100% doesn't matter whether it was forced or consensual no physical intimacy must have taken place period. Otherwise if something indeed happen that would greatly depend on whether if this maid over the age of 18 or not. I mean if she is under 18 and did indeed cosent of her own free will according to law that is what we call here in US and Canada statutory rape, sex with a minor, and they legally cannot consent to sex with an adult, even if they wanted it, in which case shiney ahuja's deserves punishment and I would let him rot in jail. On the other hand if the maid is over 18 again whether it was forced or consensual which can be difficult to prove the main issue is that the was physically intimate someone other than his wife, and I would never support my husband if he ever did that. Although extra marital affairs these days are so common and in spite of their numbers society still internally feels they should not happen and are not good, but extra marital affairs are a personal and private issue and not a legal issue, so what leads me to believe is that maybe shiney ahuja's wife is just supporting him only because she believes something did happen but it wasn't rape, she must be thinking let me first get him out of jail and this legal mess and once he's at home she might give him a piece of her mind and even possibly throw divorce papers in his face and deal with him on her own terms in private, which is what I would have done. But if shiney ahuja did force himself on this maid he deserves to rot in jail and if his wife knows this shame on her for still backing such a man. I would have expected more from educated woman who has lived in the US.

From TheJoker

July 14, 2009 11:23 AM
Lolz Lolz... The interesting point to note: 1. How many of us have seen the evidence? Dont give me the cra* of seeing it on the TV. Tomorrow media will say you are a rapist and show evidence and then by logic you will be one right? 2. Why are we even speculating why a wife is standing by her husband? What does a culture have to do with that at all? 3. Why do you guys assume, all westerners are promiscuous? OMG OMG ROFL... We hypocrite Indians dont think twice before (in Kiranesque tongue) licking their asses for their jobs, education, economic prosperity due to them. 4. Why do we refer to villages and cities? There are towns in between remember? And extra-marital affairs, sex crimes etc happen irrespective of such geographical diversity. This forum is exactly the portrayal of hypocritical indian mindset. You are not even letting the judiciary do their job. Villifying a man based on speculations... shame on you. All of you are a JOKE and you call me a JOKER :P

From Mayank

July 14, 2009 3:00 PM
Am too much of a kiddo to understand stronger issues of wife sleeping out or hubby sleeping smwhere else, but it was gud to see two grownups fite

From Vikas

July 14, 2009 3:34 PM
first thing nice blog!!! 2nd thing problem will be resolved once ppl stop considering indian as an abuse... if sum1 saying u r a typical indian, wats wrong, 2nd it aint abt shiney's wife or nethng of that sort, its all about considering some1 as a family, sometimes i hide my friend's misdeed, simply because we care about them, then if a wife doing same for husband then what's wrong in that, so i will say watever she did is just common thing, a husband would have done the same thing if he will somehow find that his wife is sleeping with someone else, and please note i am not saying that he wont mind it, most probably he will beat her up(again i dont favour beating up a women, but just saying that, what a person might do while his sentiments got hurt) and how do you know, shiney's wife wont do the same, or didnt do the same(he had a scar at hand, might be his wife gave that to him)..... its nothing about being indian, and worst part is, when will you people stop considering it as abuse... god help!!!

From Svani

July 14, 2009 4:48 PM
Hey Kiran....get a life women....why u go aggersive?????? why can't u just see lyk this....every individual has their on piont of view n every one is different..n their way of dealing is different...why do u want all to agree & support u ???????? I belive who ever is reading this blog have their own mind to calculate,,,why r u so manupulative & u r bad mouthing every individual in this forum whoever agrees with u is right n rest r crap that's what u think......Thankx

From Saarah Khann (not an indian)

July 14, 2009 5:51 PM
at Kiran thats exactly what I am saying, him calling all Indian women hypocrites won't make them one. That was his personal opinion which he is entitled to like you and I, but you started personal attack on him which is not nice at all :) and it certainly will not change his opinion so why are you boiling your blood? Take a deep breathe and let it go :).

From Kiran

July 14, 2009 8:37 PM
Fair enough then why are you all reacting to me? I've also got my own opinions and way of seeng things so don't react okay. I never said anything to anyone here except raj, so svani I don't know why you said I was bad mouthing everyone. Its just part of who I am, as far as opinions are concerned what I think about this case I've said, but raj never spoke one word relating to this particular topic on this blog, and you ladies in here have to admit that he indeed make a very false statement, no?? So if I just decided to point it out you're all jumping on my back. I guess in India people are used to keeping quiet while everyone talks shit. I'm really surprised at the other ladies here who can read his comment and not say even one word. I guess it just proves what is written in this article that typcial indian women are expected to stand by and take abuse even if it is not in their best interest and that is what the western world has come to expect when Indian women keep quite that is what is expected of them. Like I said earlier I only hope shiney ahuja's wife is standing by him only because he is 100% innocent no forced or consensual sex nothing but like I said given all the physical evidence against him at this point looks highly unlikely so I hope whatever step she takes in the future is one of self respect and doesn't just take it and accept it one day that's all.

From Kiran

July 14, 2009 9:06 PM
As far a typical indian woman or the mindset is concerned I'm only starting to believe that its expected for an indian woman to forgive the misdeeds of her husband but if she was to do the same thing then there is no question of forgiving him. Some of the ladies on this forum are leading me to believe that its perhaps why my words might have sounded so harsh because I've got very strong convictions and don't budge easily. Lets just take the example of what happened above, I said a few harsh things to raj and all the ladies here told me keep my mouth shut he said some harsh things and they overlooked it, just because I voiced my opinion everyone is like "oh you're being so mean you don't know him etc etc" so even this raj doesn't know all the other women out there. He said alot of shit to me the women here didn't take my side and say to him you're being so mean to kiran I decided to throw it back in his face and the ladies are like why are you opening your mouth. Whatever was said is between me and him then, why are you all feeling so bad for him you have to agree if he says something like that then I was justified in atleast saying a few words about it. I guess you all must have felt bad about what I said to him because he is your father, brother, boyfriend, husband etc etc, that you feel you have to come to his rescue, if you can't be fair don't take either side. Alot of people here in the west assume indian women are slaves because that is what is portrayed to them.

From jivi

July 15, 2009 1:43 AM
Dear all, The correspondence between Kiran and Raj feels like the begining of a MIlls and Boon book. Won't someone bring them together so that we move on to the end of this romance?

From Kiran

July 15, 2009 3:12 AM
This is to Ashwin...Thanks for the support I somehow missed your comment earlier and just noticed it. At least there is one real man and normal person in here. That's exactly what I had said earlier also, raj is carrying alot of emotional baggage and is in need of desperate counseling so that his next woman doesn't leave him and he learns to be a good man. Man....first michael jackson died due to lack of not caring and now this poor guy.His whole point was that the reason for the downfall of indian values and society was due to woman not accepting their suppressed roles as they once use to like in his mother's generation. I think he might be schizoprenic anyone who talks about getting a remote control to go back in time has got to be crazy..........Jivi sweetheart there never was a romance between me and that prehistoric homo erectus, I wouldn't even keep him as a free maid servant in my house. Maybe you didn't read I'm married and all, and no need to kill yourselves over to bring us together, the only person who decides that is me. I don't know why some people in here are hurting their brains over what we both say, I'm not saying it to any of you am I. As you all say in india "tere baap ka kya jaata hai".

From jivi

July 15, 2009 8:10 AM
Point taken, Kiran - and so poor "not even a free maid servan" Raj must now languish! I don't know what "tere baap ka kya jaata hai" means and I don't say it. Are we now coming up with another stereotype of the Indian as a speaker of Hindi?

From premresh

July 15, 2009 9:30 AM
Shiney has undoubtedly shown promise on the screen and a sheer lack of it off screen. The stand taken by Shiney's wife however is typically screen-like and doesn't amaze me at all. Besides the slim possibility that it is the true emotion of an Indian wife backing her husband in his hour of crisis, it is also highly likely that the reactions are part of a studied attempt to prolong the suspicion that he might after all have been framed. What puzzles me about men in general is their ability to get aroused by anything feminine around them to the point that they are driven to distraction until their desire is quenched. Even a man on a mission can step out of it to satisfy his thirst for sex once he has been aroused often even with little or any provacation. This is what makes gangsters, kidnappers, armed robbers and even petty thieves prey on women while in the pursuit of something else. Why, even ordinary men engaged in the regular business of life and work can become distracted by a woman to the point that they resort to rape to quench their desire. Here men forget their age, status and calling and the same of the women they prey on including their present plight and willingness to participate. Nothing matters but the gratification of his desire. In fact such acts have become so common that they can no longer be considered inhuman as it is in fact only humans that perform these wanton acts. Even animals have a code of conduct with regard to mating- they never rape their young, they never gang rape; and in fact it is only the male who proves himself to be the strongest among other men and to the female that is chosen to mate. Truly, we humans are a world apart from the animal kingdom in the matter of sexual maturity. In this state of being, wandering males preying on their maids and loyal mates rising to their defense is only a matter of routine in an increasingly impersonal and deceptive world.

From Jay S

July 15, 2009 12:18 PM
There seems to be a temptation to question the integrity of the accuser since she hails from a poor background. I wonder if we'd be debating on similar lines if a rich, educated woman were to charge Shiney of rape. If, indeed, the purpose was to trap and bait Mr.Ahuja, why would the maid have gone to the police so soon after the incident? By doing that she pretty much eliminated that prospect. No blackmailer in his right mind would close all options just hours after the incident. Most fans confuse Shiney's on-screen persona with his off-screen personality. Here are the facts: Shiney's semen was found on the maid. No matter how much he denies having sex with her (after initially admitting to it), he has nowhere to hide on that evidence. Bruises were found on the maid which will be hard for Shiney to explain away. His wife is defending him with no basis for thinking that he is innocent. There is no way she could know either ways.

From Jay S

July 15, 2009 12:42 PM
@Kiran, first up, statutory rape is cited in the US for age 16 and under not 18 as you suggested. Shiney could only be "100% innocent" if his semen was somehow planted into the maid - a logistical feat in itself. He is shooting himself in the foot by saying he NEVER had any kind of sexual contact with her. The evidence leaves a gaping hole in his story. The wife Anupam is just making 'wifely' noises and I am sure, she does not subscribe to it herself. If we start to discredit every single evidence by saying that it is all a big conspiracy, the only option we have to convict rape perpetrators is by the Islamic law - having an eye-witness. If that were to be used, chances are 99.9% or all rapists will go scot-free. I think the evidence in this case is overwhelmingly against Shiney. The blackmail motive flies out the window by the very fact that the rape was reported hours after the incident.

From Birs

July 15, 2009 2:50 PM
hey sushmita, my husband send me your blog as a link to read the fight between raj and kiran, and also because i am still undecided what to think about this Shiney guy. As an expert in deviant behaiviour and worked with abused children i know he must have raped her. May be like other i also still keep that "may be?!/ in mind because of his wife's stand...i really cannot explain why would she support him if there is nothing to support. Yes she is 14 years with him, i dont accept that just because she lived alon in NYC she is entitled to make best decisions/ please how can anyone evn suggest that/ ..they have a child...in India that is still a very strong "Motive" to stay in marriage. I just cannot stop myself and say: I realy wish people dont use bad language and swearing.there is nothing more disgusting and ugly than that and especially coming from a woman, who claims she is so nice and ambitious and well settled. / living in US doesnt justify it too...am a foreigner .. i know. And before anyone mention my grammar..am not from english speaking country thus i dont really have to write best english, but i speak 5 languages, including hindi..and i have not been exposed to hindi swearing so far.../ KIRAN you not only exposed the readers to your filty language but did that in english and hindi too as if not enough/ may be if anyone missed the english "pearls"...DISGUSTING..as a foreigner i can imagine in what circles your hang out. i prefer the indian born indian women...at least they copy with censure..

From sushmita

July 15, 2009 6:56 PM
Kiran: I agree with many of your views, but let's not descend to name-calling. I know Raj doesn't seem like all there (he said something abt feeling sorry for the man who marries me lol!), but why do you have to go down this path? Ignore these kind of people. I too agree that cheating cannot be condoned and it cannot be -- or shouldn't be -- differentiated on the basis of gender: a man cannot get way saying it's a natural urge; in that case, women should also be entitled to have natural urges -- and that is something most Indians with 'values' will baulk at. Can you imagine telling someone you want to sleep around because your husband cannot satisfy you sexually? But it;s alright for a man to complain -- and get away with it. Nobody will think it's abnormal or, more importantly, loose. Jay S: The reason why a rich, educated woman would be a lesser suspect is probably because she wouldn't be perceived as being someone out to make a fast buck. Mind you, I'm not saying that the injustice that comes with being poor should be condoned, but my comment seemed like a logical conclusion. Birs: I don't think Shiney's wife is doing this because she wants the 'family' to stay together; there is a deeper strategy, I am sure!

From Kiran

July 15, 2009 9:25 PM
Hi Sushmita....I totally agree with you in every way. I didn't mean to deliberately sound harsh, or for that matter in my day to day life I'm not the kind of person some people here think I am. By the way I didn't swear, I know I said some harsh but very true words but I hardly think that qualifies as swearing. Raj said the same thing to me "I feel sorry for the man who marries you" that's a very typical thing I hear from Indian guys all the time when they don't succeed in getting their way or are lacking themselves a great deal personally. Sushmita its very true and even here in the west but not so much as in India, its accepted that if a man loses his control due to his natural biological urges its alright because that's just his natural evolutionary mechanisms kicking in. But if a woman does the same thing all hell breaks loose. I have to ask all those people out there, is a woman's sexual urges any less than a man's no? Rather sometimes its not even urges to me necessarily its just that men have got this crazy idea that somehow its their birth right to behave this way and they should be allowed to get away with it. That's why I very intentionally accused Raj of being impotent, I said it to make him think about what he was saying. If a man had done the same thing its okay because its his natural urges but if a woman does the same thing if she doesn't get sexual gratification from her husband then she is a loose whore...........Sushmita I also agree with you with that Shiney Ahuja's wife supporting him in light of all the physcial evidence against him only shows there is something more going on here than meets the eye. All I was saying is being an independent educated woman who can live without here husband and take care of her daughter on her own I highly doubt she is doing it because as you said she wants keep the family together but that only time will tell. I have often see woman who are not so educated and are well for lack of better words "backwards" and are used to spending and living on the mercy of men, first their fathers, brothers, husbands, and in old age their sons, for the sake of emotional and financial security they would have kept quiet and just let the husband do whatever he wants. However shiney ahuja's wife doesn't fit that category, so to me its still a bit of mysetery why she is behaving this way but like I said only time will tell and in due course acts I hope she acts as a woman with self respect where other women like yourself and myself can be proud and say "Yes she did the right thing and I would have done the same thing" otherwise it would only reinforce the stereotype that we as Indian women or any woman for that matter lets a man get away with whatever he wants.........To Birs I'm glad you and your husband found it so funny, but there was nothing so disgusting about what I said, alright, and that nice comment you made about what kind of circle of friends I hang around with, well let me tell you, I don't hang around the kind of crowd you think I do, I'm married as of 10 years and have a daughter, I've just got very strong convictions that's all, its just my nature if I hear someone speaking ill of womena especially indian guys its like a reflex and something that just snaps in me. I was like that with the male members of my family and now they are burning with jealousy because I proved them wrong. It wouldn't be completely false on my part to say that Indians still have a long way to go as compared to the west before they accept that times have changed and women are not just meant for cooking cleaning and some baby making machines like raj was trying to imply that's why he kept comparing women of today to his mother. Just because I spoke openly and even if it did sound harsh to you, that doesn't mean I'm not Indian at heart, but very much so, go back and read what all I wrote to raj. But just because there are a few backward things I don't accept of Indian culture doesn't make me some confused westerner got that. I'm sorry to say you just proved that its because of women like you that men think they can get away with this, as I always say if women are going to support men then how can we as women ever move ahead and moving ahead doesn't have to be a negative thing like the way raj was making it sound, he wants to go back in time. But then again the men of today are also not like the men of 50 years age now are they and I don't hear anyone commenting on that.

From pawandeep

July 15, 2009 9:59 PM
Sushmita, in today's HT there was article, and it said, that in most of the hospitals in Delhi, homosexuals are not allowed to donate blood. It specifically mentioned, that in Ganga Ram Hospital, doctors say, that homosexuality is a disease, and they donot accept blood from them.

From Kiran

July 15, 2009 10:06 PM
To Jay s, I never mentioned 18 or any age here in the US, I just merely said its called "statutory rape" I think its 18 in India I'm not sure because I'm not from India. I've seen Shiney ahuja's wife's press conference, and just looking at it, anyone can see she is well educated, well spoknen and all, so that's why its got many people wondering why she is supporting her husband? Except for the big cities like Mumbai where people are becoming increasinlgy influenced by western culture, as I said earlier 70% of india still resides in small towns and villages and had this same situation taken place there and the wives have supported their husbands it wouldn't have surprised me in the least bit, because as some people have said that is what is expected of Indian woman, and like I already said its not because they necessarily believe its the right thing to do, but the age old saying "pati is parmeshwar" or whatever and anything bad he does should be overlooked, but I think these women just keep quiet because of insecurity if they go against their husbands and raise their voices they will be rendered helpless. I have often seen this attitude in the first generation Indians here in Canada, if we hear about a husband mistreating his wife and beating her brutally everyone encourages her to stay quiet and not call the police otherwise she is in their words "a bad girl". Instead of supporting such a woman they will go against her. But this applies to women who are "backwards" not someone like shiney ahuja's wife, so as someone suggested I don't think she is doing it to keep the family together. I wouldn't be able to stay with such a person if he did that to me. The message here that need to sent out is that such atrocities on Indian women that have been happening for ages will no longer be tolerated in the name of so called "indian culture". Here in the west we don't have a habit of beating around the bush and sugar coating words we just say blankly to the face which is what I did to raj. I guess that's why alot of women in here didnt like my style of talking. You ladies need to come of age, and not live in an era that has passed away in time. I'm living proof of it, I broke all the backward traditions in my family who wanted me to marry a backward villager from India and I told them "to go to hell" and 10 years later I'm living a peaceful life with my husband on my own terms and my family and parents are suffering because of their views. I've lived through alot of this so called "indian culture bullshit" and "being a good indian girl" but I've never compromised my self respect for anything or anyone, that's why I'm surprised how raj didn't get the rest of your attention, that's why he told sushmita also he feels sorry for her or whatever, and I have to say sorry to such guys, I feel sorry for them, its his wife who left him and not my husband leaving me. Guys like raj are so backward that's its virtually impossible to reform them and no woman wants to stick around with such a guy, but like I said before I don't condone cheating his wife should have just thrown divorce papers in his face to begin with and then gone of and done whatever she did, and now raj is just lashing out because deep down he knows he is wrong somewhere and has a guilty conscious but won't admit it, which again is a very typical indian male behavior. Anyone can see from his attitude that somewhere he was to blame for his marriage failing.

From Birs

July 15, 2009 10:47 PM
Kiran..i was protesting against your choice of language, not your views. i also have a daughter/ 5 yrs/ and i so far am raising her in india..which will not go on for much longer. Because i am not the kind of womman you suggests and i dont want my daughter to be so.. the social repression and backard expectations and the indian men/ sorry for generalising after all my husband is indian/ make it the last place to be in.. thanks for not using bad language in the last comments...that was all my objection /check/ . as for the indian women and indian men, there is still a lot to walk and talk. I know indian women who live abroad,running or feeling lucky, i know indian women who have decided to lead a war against men, i know women who have gone down the drain - in-law/ marriage opression and almost have no faces/ just a total package of bahu/housewife/slave which even makes them look same though in different sizes and colours. And the comunication always comes down to "how strong is the men's presence in their life/ father, brother, uncles, cousins, husband, inlaw males/?!' WHY it has to be so...why there is nothing more imnportant than discussing the dinner, the car, the maid, the school and the kitty party? Why the inteligent,creative and outgoing women have to change "face" depending on who they interview, visit, meet? How many indian women really get to be themselves and do things or believe things not because or against or provoked by how the man-woman problem stands. as for the indian men..God, i have no words to express what i think about them...though am married to one / and that is going to last though he married white woman..someone said it doesnt happen ha? / someone said that indian woman has to be like Sita to deserve man like Ram..without hurting anyone's sentiments wasn't it Rama who under the influence of the crowds / though himself beliving his wife's innocence and having such love for her/ put her through trials???AND WASNT SITA the one who left him for this? They are the model of mariage as far i know? so may be after all good indian wife is not what shiney's wife is demonstrating... oh and one more question i have ...about the indian wife...when Laxman decided to leave his wife and kids behind to join his beloved brother in exile..what happened to her? Laxman seems closer to be a model of an indian husband..if you get what i mean... sorry i wont be arround net to read on .. good luck to all

From tf

July 15, 2009 11:20 PM
Great job Kiran ....u took quite some time to try & fix that jerk Raj. Believe me...its a waste of time... he seems a fiction writer...and sure he has some fake entry comments to support his stance. If he honestly had a wife... cant stop thinking how lucky that lady was to escape from him. For all i can see he wud have not made the divorce easy.

From Kiran

July 15, 2009 11:22 PM
Hi Birs...Sorry for my earlier posts but the way you just explained yourelf makes it so much more clear, my daugher is 4 years old, and I want to raise her to have a independent mind of her own. Given the low quality of indian men these days, I can only imagine what they will be like 25 years from now, and both my husband and I have agreed that she must get the utmost proper education possible because if this is the quality of indian men today, my daughter is better off never getting married. I myself would have been single even to this day had I not met my husband, my luck and destiny went in my favor so here I am 10 years later, otherwise I would rather live alone with my head held high and life of dignity, rather than give my all to a man who doesn't even consider me but a slave if you get what I mean. Yes its very true because of what Sita did all that agni prateeksha and all society to this day demands that all women go through something similar. This was the reason why I was mad at some of the ladies in this forum, it is due to women who have backward thinking that society makes it difficult for women such as myself to hold our heads high and live a life dignity and respect, because society takes these backward women as the ideal indian woman and expects all women to conform to such a standard. Like I always say if women themselves are against women how will we make the coming generation better for our daughters and so both my husband are in full swing to get our daughter to the place she deserves to a life of self respect and not depending on a man. If she finds a great guy who truly respects her fine! but otherwise marriage in my eyes as times go by is becoming nothing but a joke. One should only get married because their heart wants it and they truly love the person and are happy with them, not because society parents relatives or whoever wants it. Since when does society know whats best. Birs you took the words out of my mouth when you said in spite of being married to an indian,you have no words to express what you feel about them,my husband is a man himself and he would love to get his hands on a worm like Raj and drag him like a dog through the streets. Last but not least I think I have spoken too much on this topic already, but if you love somebody you never betray their trust. Lastly I could be wrong on this but when men cheat they are reacting more to their biological urges and for women its more emotional and not necessarily about sex, this is just my opinion but I could be wrong, because we all know that for a woman to be physically intimate with someone she is more inclined to be emotionally attached to him whereas for a man its more physical so when someone like raj's wife cheated on him she must have lacked emotional love or whatever from him and she went and it got from someone else now I'm not condoning her actions, but that's what it appears to me, and judging from raj's tone, I don't think I'm wrong.

From Jay S

July 16, 2009 12:34 PM
@Kiran, funny how you talk about the "low quality" of Indian men available in India and elsewhere. I had spent most of my adult life working abroad and I found exactly the same thing - "low quality" of Indian women. They are just as promiscuous as the men - if not more. You forget that for a man to amorously indulge, he needs a female counterpart. Having lived in the west, can you truly say that the Indian women living there are in any way morally superior to the men? I found the women there to be as promiscuous - if not more, than the men. Bringing up a girl child in the US is more than giving her a broadminded outlook. I am not sitting here to judge whether promiscuity is right or wrong - merely pointing out that the incidence is the same in both sexes. We are all driven by our natural urges. Some have more control over them than others. In the case of Shiney, he erred in that it was not consensual. Not all men and women will take every chance they get to fulfill their urges. With all the western education comes the 'openness' towards carnal expression. If that is used as a yardstick, India still has a ways to go before it can be bracketed in the same league as the US. Children in India (at least most of them) still retain their innocence in this area unlike in the west.

From M

July 16, 2009 12:55 PM
:):):) A lot of vitriolic posts directed at each other Sushmita , I beg your pardon but I fail to understand why you keep talking about the Daniel Vettori post as if someone misread your comments as racist or as if you were so hurt . You very well know what I meant . I never even implied that you were being racist. I however give you the benefit of doubt. Probably you were complaining about how some other people felt at your posts. If you were not talking about me , ignore the first few statements After reading all the posts, I do think that there is a chance that Mr Ahuja was framed . Why is the question ? When one cannot find a motive behind why he would be framed , one cannot be sure if he was framed. About medical reports , well , in India , it is quite hard to totally believe such reports. Even judges in our country can be bribed . So , I won't read too much into it . Mind you , I am not supporting Ahuja here .If he raped her , he deserves punishment . Personally , I think all rapists should be put to death but then again , I do not rule India . However for some reason, I think it probably started out as something consensual and then the lady backed out and he could not stop . Of course, this is rape too . A very unlikely case could be that this woman is just trying to get some money out of the Ahujas . Why is his wife standing by him ? Well , it has nothing to do with Indian culture . Many women would have walked out and for instance ,if I raped a woman , I would not expect my wife to stand by me . Would seem all nice to a man if his wife stood by him even if he did something terrible but I would not blame a woman for not doing so . I also do not think that Indian women do not sleep around . Some of them do . I have no stats but I am positive that fewer of Indian women sleep around as say Indian men .

From M

July 16, 2009 12:57 PM
Jay S , I quite missed the part where Kiran says that Indian men in India are of low quality . I am in Germany and so that makes me high quality :) ( Being sarky here )

From Jay S

July 16, 2009 2:48 PM
@M er... sorry to burst your balloon, my friend. Kiran did say that ALL Indian men are of "low quality". Unless you are a German, that would include you 8-)

From Bharat

July 16, 2009 4:06 PM
I have read this whole discussion and I just want to say 1 thing to all of you: as a patriot and lover of India it really pains and saddens me when I see educated indians bickering like children and taking poor shots at each other saying things like indian men or indian women are of low quality. Shame on all of us that we could not make ourselves a country and people we could be proud of.

From sushmita

July 16, 2009 6:27 PM
Pawandeep: If this is true -- that docs in the capital's leading hospitals are saying that homosexuality is a disease and they cannot accept blood from them -- then it's a very sad indeed. I wonder where they got their degree from.

From M

July 16, 2009 6:29 PM
Jay S I was being sarky anyways . Well ,I have nothing to say about a woman who says all Indian men are low quality but yet is married to an Indian man :)Need I say more ? Bharat , before you say shame on all of us , make sure you know how to differentiate between the people who bicker and call each other names and the ones who are here only to voice their opinion .

From M

July 16, 2009 6:31 PM
Sushmita , Those kind of docs are quacks and are brought up the wrong way . There are two reasons why some people grow up to be ignorant and so obnoxious . One , because of the way they are brought up and second , because of faulty genes . Harsh I know but it is the truth :)

From svani

July 16, 2009 7:43 PM
god!!!!!!! this blog has become a battle ground ;)

From Saarah Khann (not an indian)

July 16, 2009 8:34 PM
Wow Kiran - you have some guts to make such a strong statement about Indian men, but personally I think that one should be very careful when making such strong statements (by the way what is your definition of "low quality"?)...anyway I agree with Jay S "low quality" exists in both sexes!!

From pawandeep

July 16, 2009 9:26 PM
Indeed ,in 15th July edition of HT, it is mentioned that in Ganga Ram Hospital, homosexual donors are ineligibe for blood donation. Though it also mentions, that in hospitals like AIIMS and Safdarjung, there is no such restriction.

From jivi

July 17, 2009 1:17 AM
Kiran is a true lover of "curry" - at least as far as the kind of stuff she dishes out for publication on this blog is concerned. A Kiran curry cocktail recipe may go : take a handful of chilli powder (- i.e. abuse of Raj- ) add a bottle of vinegar( - i.e. abuse of Indian low-life in "foreign" -) mix in yoghurt, tomoatoes, aubergines, okra (-i.e a range of disconnected opinions) and grill everything on high heat (all the vigour and passion of self-righteousness) - and lo and behold you have the Kiran Curry! Actually Kiran Curry is addictive, and I keep returning to this blog only to find out what the next bout of near-bizarre verbal gush will bring.

From Kiran

July 17, 2009 2:22 AM
@Jivi...I don't know if you meant that in a good way or bad way, but it really made me laugh. I never had someone say such nice delicious things about me, are you a chef??? I'm choosing to believe that somewhere I really must have impressed or at least made an impression on you (even as I right this I can't help but laugh and control myself) that you keep on coming back for second helpings. No one likes to eat bad things now do they??? So looks like I made my point huh???

From Kiran

July 17, 2009 2:41 AM
As some good news and relief for some of you, I thing writing on this topic any further is unnecessary as it is. I could go on forever, but some people here might start suffering from high blood pressure and heart attacks so might as well quit while the going is good. Many of your reactions don't surprise me, even in my personal life I've given people shocks only because I don't follow convention, but then again this world is known for going against people who don't follow the rules of society, and prove themselves and come out on top society always wants to pull such people down. But as some final words all that I've said only got to all you because there was alot of truth in it, otherwise as Jivi dear there wouldn't have keep on coming back for more. But don't worry if I didn't get across to some of you time will, take care all maybe at that point some of you might realize your marbles arent together.

From Kiran

July 17, 2009 3:15 AM
Oh this is to jivi...sweetheart don't eat so much of this spicy curry stuff it isn't good for your health, and no I'm no curry lover my food is pretty simple you know I practice yoga everyday so for that you have to have vegetarian and simple food, I like to keep myself in shape. Otherwise you know what happens "like typical indian women" especially middle aged ones you'll become an overgrown fat bufflo, and look like an auntie ji, people much younger than me even look older, if many of you saw you couldn't tell I'm someone married for 10 years and have a child. Gosh I wonder why??? Someone here in US once told me "you should drink alchohol...that way you'll be more american" I have to ask you all does that mean no one in India drinks?? or smokes, or whores around??? We're living a world that considers normal abnormal and abnormal normal, truly a kalyug I would say.

From neil

July 17, 2009 3:24 AM
its said that some of our friends are capable of making such sad remarks and personal comments e.g raj's comments".................Indian women dont sleep around? hahahahaha. This is the most absurd joke I have heard in a long time.I divorced my wife after I found out that she was fooling around with another man while she was married to me. You want more???? I have a long list of people I personally know, who have been through similar episodes. "Present day" Indian women are the biggest hypocrites in the world!!!!! I say present day because back in our mothers' times, Indian women respected their culture instead of being brainwashed by some western soap they see on TV. And yeah, I can see the change in the attitudes of the Indian women these days. You just need to look at the number of divorces in India these days and your statement about "Indian women changing" is justified. What an article!!!! I pity the guy who marries you...." one question to all readers.. do you all think that this was shiney ahuja's first ever act? His wife should thank the maid for exposing him and support him instead. He does npot deserve any mercy and should be sentensed for life atleast at the earliest. I am sure this will give some courage to some more silent victims (male or females) who had not had the courage to raise their voice.

From neil

July 17, 2009 3:26 AM
corrections................................................. its said that some of our friends are capable of making such sad remarks and personal comments e.g raj's comments".................Indian women dont sleep around? hahahahaha. This is the most absurd joke I have heard in a long time.I divorced my wife after I found out that she was fooling around with another man while she was married to me. You want more???? I have a long list of people I personally know, who have been through similar episodes. "Present day" Indian women are the biggest hypocrites in the world!!!!! I say present day because back in our mothers' times, Indian women respected their culture instead of being brainwashed by some western soap they see on TV. And yeah, I can see the change in the attitudes of the Indian women these days. You just need to look at the number of divorces in India these days and your statement about "Indian women changing" is justified. What an article!!!! I pity the guy who marries you...." one question to all readers.. do you all think that this was shiney ahuja's first ever act? His wife should thank the maid for exposing him and support her instead. He does not deserve any mercy and should be sentensed for life atleast at the earliest. I am sure this will give some courage to some more silent victims (male or females) who had not had the courage to raise their voice.

From Kiran

July 17, 2009 4:09 AM
@Neil...MY Brother!!! You just said it. However, as I said earlier we will have to wait and see if what the maid is claiming is true, that indeed she was raped. I totally agree with you, if shiney ahuja is guilty there should be no mercy for him so that it sends out the right message. I wonder why there can't be more guys like you around??? If this wasn't shiney's first act and this time his luck just ran out and he happen to get caught this time, you're right his wife should support the maid. Shiney Ahuja's wife in under those circumstances should forget that she is his wife and do the what any righteous woman would do. But the same goes the other way around, and that's what I've been saying all along. Indians are one group of people until there is someone to set the stage and become an example to all they are afraid to come out of their holes, and keep in hiding, worse yet they might just try to stop that person from becoming an example.

From neil

July 17, 2009 4:44 AM
@kiran.......we know that shiney has confessed. there isnt any other truth waiting to unfold. just the judgement day and we will all celebrate his conviction & the memorable sentence. the confession and the medical evidence should be enough for a speedy trial. This guy thinks that with some success and some fame he got the licence to commit any sin. his wife claimed to be "happily married" ..i have reasons to doubt the meaning of happiness for such spouses and families... shiney's wife is bit weak and bigger victim than the maid, as i am sure thats "she" knew even more than "the maid".

From neil

July 17, 2009 4:46 AM
@kiran.......we know that shiney has confessed. there isnt any other truth waiting to unfold. just the judgement day and we will all celebrate his conviction & the memorable sentence. the confession and the medical evidence should be enough for a speedy trial. This guy thinks that with some success and some fame he got the licence to commit any sin. his wife claimed to be "happily married" ..i have reasons to doubt the meaning of happiness for such spouses and families... shiney's wife is bit weak and bigger victim than the maid, as i am sure that "she" knew shiney even more than her own maid.

From Kiran

July 17, 2009 5:00 AM
@Neil..Again I totally agree with you. But as the Romans had coined the term "you're innocent until proven guilty", so well just have to wait until the law does prove shiney guilty or otherwise. I've been saying all along with all the physical evidence against him, if shiney is not the rapist then who is. When they found that his DNA matched to that of the maid, that just killed any doubts right there that shiney may not be the rapist. As far as shiney's wife's behavior or whatever is concerned, you're right in some ways she might be the bigger victim here. I've said this so many times in my previous posts that somehow Indian women are programmed or brainwashed by society to believe they have to take this type of behavior. When I threw the truth out there, can alot of ladies in here starting saying that I should keep my mouth shut. Since when is it to tell the truth and what is or not. There seems to be this silent plague in our Indian culture that wrongdoings should be silently supported especially if the wrongdoer is a man, but if its a woman all of a sudden the rules change and everyone is out to expose her. That's like taking a pile of shit and decorating and covering it with flowers and saying "see how good it looks" yeah but but it sure stinks. So given this example shiney's wife is probably doing something similar trying to cover up the real story but the more she shouts and proclaims her "so called love" the more fishy it looks and smells, doesn't it???

From Kiran

July 17, 2009 5:08 AM
I missed a few word in my post above..."can you believe alot of ladies in here" and "since when is it a crime to tell the truth".

From neil

July 17, 2009 5:10 AM
@kiran........... you express so well. i fully agree with all you have said.

From Kiran

July 17, 2009 5:34 AM
Thanks neil. Gosh I wish that idiot raj could read this I think he ran away from here when I starting blasting him left and right. He said women don't know how to cook and all that. What was he on about, I'm a modern day girl, I can cook and play hockey at the same time. I clean the house and race a car at 110km/hr down the highway. I'm educated yet I know my roots, that raj seems to be on some kind of drugs. I can't believe he even had a problem with people having cars, maybe he couldn't afford one that's why he's upset, and he even has a problem with music. I doubt he even knew who Michael Jackson was, change doesn't always have to be a negative thing, I guess from now the only woman in his life will be his mother. He doesn't even sound like a person from today sounds like a 1000 year old man couldn't adjust to change so he started popping like a firecracker. Somebody get the poor soul a good pyschiatrist. But you neil seem to be quite decent thanks for the support.

From neil

July 17, 2009 5:46 AM
@kiran.......... forgive and forget raj... and i am sure someone will teach him a real lesson very soon. you dont have to say all this now..if he needs a psychiatrist or not ...

From neil

July 17, 2009 6:00 AM
@kiran and all reader.... we dont have to look for graceful ways to act... we must stop thinking or doing whats incorrect. the truth is we all know when we are doing something wrong... so why cant we mind ourselves at that very moment. the purpose of marriage is to surrender oneself fully and stabalise our lives ....whereas few poeple like shiney bring shame and damages the meaning of family.

From Jay S

July 17, 2009 7:29 AM
@Kiran, keep 'em coming, girl. Some of us on here have taken on more illustrious combatants and held our own. But, be sure to dish out what you yourself can take in retaliation. If I were you, I'd make sure my "low-quality" Indian husband is kept in the dark about this blog. In the shroud of internet anonymity, one can claim to be anything one wants to be. It is the truth that is often short-changed. Every marriage is perfect until the partner finds out. Shiney was found out. But there may be others on here who may still be living in blissful ignorance. But going by your hatred of Indian men, I can tell that you have an axe to grind. I can say this categorically, all Indian men are not what you paint them out to be. Maybe you picked a bad apple. But, hey, life is a roll of the dice.

From Jay S

July 17, 2009 7:43 AM
@M, just kidding, mate. That was tongue-in-cheek. But, what really annoys me is an Indian woman who probably rode on the coat-tails of a Green Carder to get to the new world, bears his child and has no qualms about dissing all Indian men - unwittingly (I presume) including her own husband amongst that lot. Speaks volumes about the person making such a sweeping allegation. Suddenly, she is the enlightened one - no matter what subterfuge she used to get to the liberated land in the first place.

From Bharat Sharma

July 17, 2009 10:14 AM
@ Raj, Be the Change you want. This is a Dharm yuddha. Join the Dharma forces.

From M

July 17, 2009 12:37 PM
Sure , I also think that it is hypocritical to say that all Indian men are low lifes when one is married to an Indian . :)

From sushmita

July 17, 2009 2:07 PM
Kiran: My problem with Raj was that – other than being uncouth -- he was presumptuous enough to state that the number of rising divorces was equivalent to Indian women being promiscuous. He means a marriage or a relationship falls apart ONLY because the woman sleeps around (with some else)? How idiotic is that? What about other reasons – like, say, the man doing the sleeping around bit, and therefore the woman walking out? In his reasoning, it is unthinkable that a woman can walk out of a relationship however promiscuous her partner is! Lol! When you say you find Indian men “low quality”, I beg to differ somewhat. You have a lot nice Indian men around, although there is a big stereotyping of Indian men (across different regions). My friend M will tell you that “White men” are no better – at times even worse ;) White men may be cads and jerks (low quality men exist everywhere in the world I’m sure), but they may be LESS inclined to make misinformed value judgements like Raj and his ilk do. When I read some of the comments posted here – and these come not from men living in the boondocks, but urban, educated men – I am pretty stunned how a woman writing a blog or posting a comment that is deemed ‘liberal’ brings out the worst in them. If we lived in a Taliban-ruled state, at least there would be ground rules. But we are supposed to be living in a democracy and in a country that is opening up to globalisation (one reason why we have the privilege of blogging in an open forum), so how can we be so inward-looking and fixated?

From sushmita

July 17, 2009 2:26 PM
Bharat: The only way that India can move forward is by adopting TOLERANCE – be it for homosexuality, for equality, for religious freedom, for regional differences. If I am not tolerant, and believe, for instance, that Maharashtra is for Marathis and anybody else deserves to be kicked out of the state, the whole country will be pieces. Everyone will have an agenda, and how many people and secessionist movements will you try and stop? Kiran: I do not agree with one of your previous comments about how you can be a good Indian by abstaining from drinking or smoking. Just because someone has a drink doesn’t mean that he is a bad person. It’s okay to CHOOSE not to smoke or drink because of health reasons, but it’s unfair to say that a drink or a smoke can render someone morally inadequate! I really wish life was so simple, and that one could typecast people by their social habits!

From M

July 17, 2009 4:08 PM
Sushmita, I am still going to give you the benefit of doubt assuming that you are not including me in the “ilk “ but there is a big difference between an opinion and people attacking you . There is a also a big difference in reacting to people personally attacking you and starting a personal attack . The moment you notice this , you have become a wiser person .

From M

July 17, 2009 4:13 PM
I also agree that it is preposterous to assume that a person is bad if he or she smokes or drinks but one thing is kind of sure . If you smoke , you are being stupid because you are doing nothing but damage to yourself . Of course, this is another matter . A personal choice though technically you may be hurting others who you force to be passive smokers . Drinking beyond limits also mean that the person is stupid but here you harm no one unless you go and beat up your wife or cause trouble in the society

From Love Guru

July 17, 2009 4:16 PM
Shiney's wife is a shining example of what a wife should do if her husband has had an affair with another woman. Indian ladies please learn from her ! If your husband is caught cheating, go easy on him. He has to deal with a lot of stress to provide for you and your offspring. Also, how long can a man keep looking at the same face? After a few years, the man starts to groan at the thought of turning off the lights. Oh, by the way, I am not married :-)

From Kiran

July 17, 2009 5:22 PM
@Jay S..I'm not surprised you'd say something like that. No I didn't pick a bad apple as a matter of fact I picked a great guy, who comes from a good background with moral and values and he himself feels the same way about a majority of Indian guys. Oh and that thing you said abut a green card. For your information, I guess some people in here don't know how to read English, I'm from Canada, my husband was already here in US, and maybe you don't know but Canada is the only other country that comes in as close second to US, I grew up in a luxurious house, money and everythng and had all the good things while growing up. So my brother!! Your theory of me wanting a green card are not very strong now are they. But like I said what you said isn't surprising some people who get jealous on seeing us can't believe it, while all in the 10 years I have married all my husband's Indian collegues have to go back to India and pick up a dark ugly lookig gold digger who is only interested in coming here for as you said a green card, and in terms of personality and soul they have got nothing in common, and he will get her pregnant in within a year and trap her, then treat her like a slave and all the while the wife is cursing him internally. But that's what you get for marrying for materialistic things like money and visa. Even after 10 years of marriage I've got problems with other women hittng on my husband, but I never worry because unlike arranged marriages we have an open and honest relationship.So Jay S or whatever all this in your face buddy, but I guess none of this will make sense to you since in this day and age marriages such as mine that are so successful are unheard of thats why I have such strong convictions and views towards men.

From Kiran

July 17, 2009 5:34 PM
In case this went unnotices by some of you, I did praise Neil.As far as I know Neil is a guys name, I do repsect guys who see the way neil sees, and my husband just happens to be one of the also, but just looking at this forum for example after all that I have written only this guy came forward and made any sense, so that should tell you all where a marjority of Indian guys stand....Just look at what love guru said. "Love Guru" he has the word love in his name but there is nothing loving about his view. Don't worry I won't even bother to reply to this shit, what he said is even worse than raj, I've got to show what he wrote to my husband he will die laughing. Love guru a classic example of indian male mentality. As my husband always says where there is love it will never grow old, and mutual repsect and understanding, life never gets boring and I guess that's why I've managed to prick some of you, but you all trying to cover the truth up whic will not change it into a lie. Just remember that.

From ja i. ms

July 17, 2009 5:59 PM
@ Kiran....why r u telling us what u had when u were growing so what u have grown up in a gr8 house, nice lyfstyle who cares???????? get urself check in GP mate...u got lost n the blog is about shiney ahuja not u... or r u his u know what i mean....b4 passing comment n generalizing gender/race or anything think twice as all mens are not low quality n all women donot sleep around.... U miss the plot n now as r telling every single person in this forum u r living in canada u 've nothing to do as all most all the time u have something to say....god forbid that guy who is with u ...he have no chance on u...beware if u r so into ur pc then ur hubby might be another SHINEY AHUJA....no hard feelings mate but i had to react coz enough is enough.....:-) ;-D

From M

July 17, 2009 6:13 PM
Kiran You and I have never really exchanged any views directly but you do not seem to think clearly at all times . First ,someone here said that you said all Indian men are of low quality .I replied that if you indeed did say something like that , then , you were wrong and being a hypocrite. I never praised you or attacked you . So , don’t categorize me in any bracket for Pete’s sake . Second , what do you mean by Canada comes in a close second to the USA ? In terms of what ? The USA is not the best country to live in and neither does it have the highest standard of living . Get real . It is the only superpower but superpower status does not make any country the best. I live in Europe and according to most experts ( on living index et al ) , Europe and especially countries like Germany, Austria and France have the best standards of living not to mention infrastructure . Have you ever been to Germany for instance ? The public transportation is among if not the best in the world . Don’t get me wrong . I am no German and neither do I intend to become a naturalized citizen here . However, you got to give the devil his due . I do not know if you have been around the world but to talk as if Canada and the USA are the best in the world is plain ignorance. By the way , I wonder why you are talking about how you grew up . Then , I for instance could say that I was brought up in one of the richest countries in the world and had luxury all around me . Does not make you look nice ( your statements ) You also talk about dark ugly . When did dark and ugly go hand in hand ? Do you have a problem with dark people ? Sheesh . If you only said ugly , I could understand . I do agree with your point though that men do go to India and marry some girl ( who is interested in a life abroad ) Last but not the least, you say that you have an open relationship ? ha ha . It can mean something else . Be careful with how you use English . 

From M

July 17, 2009 6:16 PM
By the way , Kiran , I know what you mean by open in " open relationship " though . :):)

From Kiran

July 17, 2009 6:25 PM
@M..not open as in the shit that is flowing through your mind, so no need to beat around the bush.....@Sushmita...I should rephrase myself to sound more fair. Not all or 100% indian guys are bad, I know otherwise I wouldn't be married to one, but a majority are like that Love Guru. Just an example, my husband and I were in Germany, on work related business with his boss. One night we went out to dinner and there others with us but this one Indian guy on the pretext of going shopping for his wife and daughter said he couldn't come with us. On the way back we passed through an area with sex shops and strips clubs around and we stopped my husband got out and asked "hey what are you doing here", he had this look on his face the kind where you catch a thief in the act and said he was buying a gift for his daugher, IN A SEX SHOP!!! The truth is he wanted to have fun before we left the next day. These stories are so common not with just Indian men but men of all backgrounds. I got other stories such as this one, but I don't want to make it too long.

From Kiran

July 17, 2009 6:33 PM
@M....Its such a coincedence you asked me if I had been to Germany and lo and behold I have. I never said Canada US are the best, what I was trying to say was why would a girl like me, who already lives in a good developed country like Canada be dying to go to US just for a green card. Your friend Jay S there was going in that direction. I know there are alot more things to making a good standard of living that just lots of money. You may not believe this but the city in Canada where I come from has been voted consistenly as being the top 5 most best cities in the world to live, taking into account population, environment etc etc along side cities two of which are in Switzerland and Germany I think. People when they come to know that I come from Vancouver, that's the city where I'm from they're like "Oh my God you come from such a beautiful place". What to do I only came to US to be with my husband because that's where he was already settled, so one of us had to make the move, it had nothing to do with green card as that Jay S was accusing me of. M I have read your posts, and I was about to say I do agree with some of what you say at least you're not a full blown case like that love guru.

From Jay S

July 17, 2009 7:00 PM
@Kiran, by categorizing Indian men to be of "low quality" you must have a reference point. Not many people could make such an objective assessment for sheer lack of competing experience. Low quality in what sense, you fail to elaborate. I suspect a lot of it may not be printable. Low in quality vis-a-vis Canadian men? Only you would know. Somehow your 'happily-ever-after' tales and claims of grandeur are hard to reconcile. The kind of intense spite you show towards Indian men has to have its roots somewhere. Anyone with the slightest exposure to psychology will tell you that. I never talked about how much money you had or hadn't - couldn't care less. You tout your being in the west like some kind of qualification. Maybe it is to you. Are you talking about your husband by any chance in all the examples you quote of an Indian guy making an ass of himself? There's way too much detail in there to have been an observer's viewpoint. In a strange sort of a way, I empathize with you. You know what the truth is. It has been proven that people having a pleasant life display less ire towards people in general compared to the ones that have gone through the wringer.

From Kiran

July 17, 2009 8:58 PM
@Jay S...Ok what you said is also very fair and point taken. I guess the way raj's absurd comments pricked me maybe my comments got to you as well. Maybe you and M aren't that bad, I'll give you the benefit of th doubt. When you said my view towards Indian men has its roots elsewhere,yeah very true indeed.Well, for example like I said being from Canada a majority of the indian population here is Punjabi Sikh and have been for generations but the funny thing is a majority of these first generation Indians are from villages with just some basic education and all and they have got all these backward ideas and are living in the past includig my parents. They think that just by migrating to another country they think they have become something big and all. But I always say just by living in a big house or having lots of money doesn't make you a higher standard and all, its the way you think and all that counts. There are lots of first generation Indians in Canada who expect their daugters to live the way Indian women have for generations, these people live in a foreign country yet they behave something out of the dark ages. It's not just me so many of my friends, just to go out with our friends to the mall or a movie is a battle but when it comes to the boys they let them wonder wherever they want. These are actual stories and I'm not making them up.

From Kiran

July 17, 2009 9:08 PM
CONT'D FROM ABOVE....These people don't want girls to have a voice of their own and are living in the past like raj.One of my friends who's from the middle east even once said to me "don't you think your're parents are getting out hand" I said its not me, its so many girls,but they just don't have the confidence to stand up for themselves. My parents wanted me to marry an illiterate truck driver from India and I told them to go hell. I don't see why an educated western girl like me has to put up with that kind of shit. Then when my husband came into my life, I was like "man this is too good to be true" his parents having instilled such good values in him made me wonder, why is it that my in-laws being from Mumbai are so cool and liberal and forward thinking when we have thousands like my own parents in a country like Canada who are so backward?? Then it hit me, its the environment. I admit cities in India like Mumbai are one of the few places where good guys may reside, my husband is from the Indian navy. But as I've said a majority of India like 70% is still in villages, and guys like this raj and love guru should be sprayed with poison and killed. So yes alot of my views do come from personal experience. But in a way I'm glad what happened it just made me stronger and more determined.

From Kiran

July 17, 2009 9:19 PM
to Jay S and M, maybe you guys may not be that bad, maybe thats why my comments got to you. But you have to admit and this is just what I've seen it doesn't matter it its Indian or whatever but good guys are becoming difficult to find. Majority are still questionable according to me. I'm a a girl myself, and as a woman all I can say is that woman would give up all the money in the world to have a guy who loves an repsects her. Jay S when you accused me of marrying for a green card and all that, I mean green cards, a big house, expensive car, a girl like me who already had all that was beyond all that, I left everything behind for a guy who truly does repsect me, and now 10 years later I have everything and much more like peace of mind and refuse to go back and visit my parents what happened they just lost a daugher because of their old fashioned thinking. But still I have yet to see more guys like my husband. When I said low quality I meant guys who marry for dowry, who want their wives to take care of the house and kids and still work so they can have a double income whether she wants to or not, they are not worried about anyone's happiness or well being except they are just greedy for money. Alot of guys these days don't want to do their duties unconditionally as a husband and father that's what I meant by low quality. They are like "I'm the man around here and treat everyone else like a slave". Hope that made things more clear.

From Kiran

July 17, 2009 9:30 PM
I just remembered a good example of what I'm talking about. You all must of heard of the Nisha Sharma story. That's what most people are like here in Canada are like as far at the first generation is concerned. But at the same time if I remember I read it years ago now, that after that many guys were proposing marriage to her, correct me if I'm wrong. But my question is where are these so called people in real life. I must be staying somewhere in the wrong corner or something. That's what I'm getting at it all stars with one person to set an example and when I heard about this story I was like there are more like me out there, you just have to have the confidence, as they say seeing is believing and a picture speaks a thousand words. But as far as Indians are concerned they still have a long way to go. What that love guru said, yeah that is very true for a guy who doesn't care about his family and doesn't love his wife is what I was getting at. If a had to use a public figure lets take Sharukh Khan he's known his wife since he was like 19 and she was like what 15. How come some maid didn't pick him to frame, I'm sure he's more rich than shiney ahuja. Sharukh never gets tired of looking at Gauri's face, and yet when they were getting married people had a problem with that because they were of different religions. Something similar happened in my life from my side of the family of course.

From renu

July 18, 2009 1:28 AM
shit man, can't we stick to shiney ahuja n his wife,and not go personal. its all about personal decision, if the wifey decides to support her husband, who are we to judge her, she may be having her reasons, zat we are not aware of!give her some rest, u lot!

From renu

July 18, 2009 1:28 AM
shit man, can't we stick to shiney ahuja n his wife,and not go personal. its all about personal decision, if the wifey decides to support her husband, who are we to judge her, she may be having her reasons, zat we are not aware of!give her some rest, u lot!

From Jay S

July 18, 2009 8:42 AM
@Kiran, I apologize if I said anything that hurt you. I thought it was unfair to tar every Indian man with the same brush. A lot of us try to be the best we can possibly be. Quite a few look at things from the woman's perspective too. The reason why Shiney has been ripped apart by many men on here is owing to that. Every society produces its share of riffraff even Canada and the US. We cannot use that evidence to tar and feather the entire community. I am happy for you that you stood your ground and made decisions that were right by you. I understand what you mean by parents steeped in tradition not seeing a contemporary point of view. But parents, in all their ignorance, still want the best for their children. I fervently wish that you make your peace with your parents. I can personally vouch for the sheer joy of serving our parents when it comes time to pay back. Nothing comes close to the elation of doing something that is appreciated by them. An aspect of the Indian culture that I am particularly proud of. You're right. Shiney is a nobody and no one in his right mind will take the trouble of framing a two-bit pretender. They'd go after bigger game. So, Kiran, no hard feelings. I wish you the very best in life and I sincerely hope you find lots and lots of happiness.

From pawandeep

July 18, 2009 10:06 AM
Renu you have written it correctly, it is a personal decision, and we must respect others personal decisions,because we donot know, under what circumstances these are being taken. Ofcourse, law will not take decide on the basis of personal decisions. @ Kiran, just by writing longer and longer columns, you just cannot force your views on others . Sometimes few lines are enough.

From jivi

July 18, 2009 3:53 PM
Sushmita, do you really want your blog hi-jacked? About half the blog is by the Kiran persona- whoever s/he may be under the cover of the billion cloaks of internet anonymity. His/her opinions lack nuance, the expression is unmodulated and intemperate and the argument - if any- sways from personal opinion (rancour?) expressed in flat generalisations to a plethora of unrelated deail. Is this what you really want, Sushmita? Reading Kiran's prose - with the fascination one has for a two-tailed lizard- all I can say is that English language education seems to be far superior in many parts of India to wherever Kiran claims S/He lives. And, Kiran, you are right - one shouldn't have too much of the stuff you dish out - so I am quitting this blog. Save the vitriolic response that I am sure is rising in you Kiran for someone else who has more time to ponder on the outlandish mixtures you concoct.

From Kiran

July 19, 2009 6:30 AM
@Jay S...thanks so much. Its just become a habit of being very defensive. Like I said its hard to believe a good thing until you see. I was even skeptical at first with my husband. Nice to see some others around like you but we need more......Anyways I thought shiney ahuja's judicial custody was supposed to end on July 16, what happened??? After the first week or see I haven't heard anything about what's happening lately with this case, it'd be interestng to see what the real truth is. The longer they take the more strange it looks. Normally I don't take too much interest in these things, but shiney ahuja just looked so innocent but sometimes its the innocent ones who are really the bad ones. Its not written on anyone's face what he is.

From Mona

July 19, 2009 10:02 AM
Whoa! That was a huge argument between Kiran and Raj, and people attacking kiran and raj. Guys, its a blog about shiney's rape case, not about women vs. men. First off, there are many reasons to cheat, again i don't support it but there can be reasons for it. And i am in no way justifying shiney's rape case (if he is guilty even) But the type of woman i am, i would forgive my husband if he were to cheat on me. Now don't attack me calling me weak and what not, because that is my personal choice. Sometimes, when you cheat and you sort things out, it brings you closer and believe me i have seen such cases to believe it. As long as the other person who has cheated, feels guilty and is ready to work things out with you, you should be up to work it out. During such a time, your suppose to let go of your ego and think about the love the two of you share and realize what matters to you, and if you can put it behind you or not. I have been with my boyfriend for 3 years, and i have forgiven a lot of his mistakes, nothing drastic but if you want to make it drastic you can, and today even if he does make a mistake he feels so guilty he'll come up and tell me (no he hasn't cheated on me), and promise me to not make that mistake again, and so far it has been like that. Really, its just one life to live, let go of your damn ego and learn to forgive and just be happy. I am proud of Anupama, for standing by her husband, honestly she is a brave woman. And kicking to the curb is not always easy, like i said let go of your ego. I can say a lot more, about the whites cheating and bla bla, but lets not get into it as its not the topic. All in all, i really hope Shiney is proven innocent for anupama's sake.. but then again, why would a maid be lieing.. its all too complicated.. Regardless, i know Anupama will stand by him even if he is guilty. That's true love (my view of it, don't want to get attacked).. where you accept all the faults and short comings of the person you love because in love your not always going to be happy. And in life too.

From Love Guru

July 19, 2009 1:07 PM
@Mona, you are the kind of girl India needs more of. You fully understand Indian culture and even biblical scriptures. You are amongst the few I know who understands the meaning of "To forgive is divine". I wish there were more like you. What wouldn't I give to get a wife like you !!! You see, men have a natural disposition to spawn their genes. It is a primordial drive designed by the Maker for the propagation of the species. Who are we to judge His designs?? Bravo, Mona, bravo. You are a fine specimen of the demure Indian woman !!! Girls, watch and learn from Mona.

From Love Guru

July 19, 2009 1:18 PM
Far from attacking you, Mona, you'll gather yourself a healthy fan following. If only you'd post your contact details, we men would idolize you and send you gifts for every Woman's Day :-)

From Kiran

July 19, 2009 6:58 PM
@the two people above, especially the last 2 comments. I'm in so much shock I have no words. Now you both take over I'm done with this forum forever.....Oh God I'm going to go and vomit now!!! Good ridance!!!

From M

July 20, 2009 12:32 PM
Mona , I think that some things are easier said than done . I mean all I can say is that if a person has cheated once , he or she is capable of cheating again . Past does mean something . Of course, it does not mean that one cannot learn from his or her mistakes and change. However, you will be able to say that you would forgive your husband or boyfriend if he or she cheated only if you have gone through it . It is not about ego . When your spouse cheats on you , you feel betrayed and start thinking a lot like the guy or girl did not love me enough and that is why he or she did it . By the way, there is no excuse for cheating . Absolutely nothing .

From M

July 20, 2009 12:37 PM
Kiran , It is good that you stood up and made yourself clear to your parents . You said that your parents asked you to get married to a truck driver. Usually , it is the other way around . Innocent girls from India are asked to marry some idiot in Canada . See, the only problem I had with you was that you supposedly said that all Indian men are low quality ( this is what Jay S said ) If you did not mean that ,I have no problems with you . The others who had a problem with your opinion maybe have to learn to accept different opinions . An opinion is different from a scathing attack . By the way , no shit was going through my mind when I talked about open relationships . It was only a joke . Last but not the least, you may not like Raj S and love guru but to want to kill them is going too far  I can say this , You seem to be a smart woman who has achieved quite a lot in life but you are short tempered and blow your top at the drop of a hat . You are the type who can be either loved or hated but never ignored. Correct me if I am wrong Good luck and God bless your husband and you

From Mona

July 20, 2009 8:44 PM
I agree forgiving is not easy, but like i said i have seen couples here who have done it and are so much happier today. All it takes is a bit of patience, i know i would feel betrayed, but there is always a reason. And the type of person my boyfriend is, if he ever were to cheat on me, he would die of the guilt, thus i hope i never have to go through this. But like i said, it really depends if you can put it behind you and move on. Yeah it will always be there in the back of your head, but you know what.. things happen, you just learn to go with it and move on. And as it is, it is so hard to find the one you are compatible with, i wouldn't let go of my man at any cost. And that being said, yes if he did cheat on me, i would still not be able to walk out. That's just how i am. And i don't just mean this forgiving part on the only for the woman, if a woman does cheat her husband should be able to put it behind him aswell.. And Kiran, did i say anything about your posts? seriously woman, go puke for all i care, this is my opinion and my life. And since i made you puke anyway, let me say a word or two about your posts, you my friend contradicted yourself so much in your posts its not even funny. But since you kept going on and on, i just didn't bother reading the latter posts. Happy puking :) And M, lolll your funny. Its not about being a good indian woman, its just about being in love with my bf so much, i am sure the day you find a girl and you treat her like shes your everything, she'll be so in love with you, that she wouldn't want to let you go either.

From Kiran

July 21, 2009 12:21 AM
@Mona..I would greatly appreciate if you would exactly tell me where I contradicted myself, since I don't have a clue. Also you didn't read my post carefully I meant I felt like puking at love guru's comments not yours (I love guru is raj with another name. I was surprised at what you said, but love guru's comments were just sick. You see Mona this is the kind of guys you will attract if you go easy on them. I never attacked you, afterall you are a woman also and I'm not going to attack someone who is already half dead, but I feel great sympathy for you. You said if you choose to make things drastic then drastic things will happen. I know exactly what you're trying to say, if say your boyfriend were to cheat on you, then you would not aggravate the situation even more by sticking up for yourself rather you will just internally feel hurt and then go back and try to rebuild with him, my question is how many times will you do this? A person who cheats will never just stop at one. How many times will you take this kind of behavior before you burn out and don't have any strength left anymore. I know its your life, but these are things you should think about. You said yourself your boyfriend does things even now but he feels so guilty but nothing drastic, what is "drastic" to you exactly? It sounds to me like you are just going easy on him in the hopes that he will marry you one day and he's just testing your patience to see how far he can push, and you yourself said one has to be patient in such situations. Tommorrow after you get married if he beats you up and breaks your face and all then afterwards he shows you crocodile tears and says how sorry he is will you forgive him? He might do it a 100 times after that and everytime he shows tears and pacifies you for the moment with tears will your forgive him? He cheats on you which I hate to say its sounds like he will, and you mentally have already prepared yourself for it will you forgive him? I feel very sorr for you that you feel you have to put up with this. You sound just like a friend of mine, and everytime the guys give her a thrill and make her fall head over heels in love with them, and she does exactly what they want in the hopes of that they will marry her. She has had eating restrictions put on her by them, she has to sleep with them and have live in relationships and all the time she thinks its all cool. I have been friends with her for so many years and yet I have never told her what to do, because as you said "its my life" and I very well am aware of that. She once said to me "its okay for my man to cheat on me as long as I don't find out abut it". I said to her well you're just saying the same thing only with a more practical angle because you don't want to go through all those emotions of being let down and betrayed and have to rebuild the relationship again. Shiney ahuja what he did, he also committed a rape which is violence against woman only thing he chose to do it on his maid rather than his wife, I wonder what his wife would do if he had done it to her. I wonder what has happened to you in your life that you feel you have to compromise so much, having self respect doesn't equal ego, and what you're calling forgivness is compromise. Sounds like you're the kind of girl who just for the sake of not wanting to be alone in life, is only going easy on her boyfriend for the sake of wanting to secure a life long comapanion. Even if your boyfriend cheats on you and you do forgive him you will never be able to trust him again, and I don't think such relationships can ever be fullfilling again. I know there are alot of people who do it, but do you spend 24 hours a day with them and know who they feel about eachother? No. Its all just compromise and has nothing to do with love, there is a difference between being in love and being blinded by love. All I'm saying is as woman you DO have a choice of not having to be treated like this. Mona you only picked up on my puking comment but you don't know love guru said a very insulting thing to you. He said if he could get a woman like you he's send you gifts. The message you have given guys like him and your boyfriend are that you can be pacified by money and be bought, is this how you want to be treated. Looks to me like you have decided to stop listening to your heart and ingnored that voice inside your head which is your concscious, because like my friend you have accpeted that these things will happen so what's the point in fighting it all guys are like this and so just take the first or whichever one comes along who gives you some attention and buys you gifts and all. My husband doesn't buy me too many gifts and nor do I demand them but he is nothing close to being a love guru or like your bf. As a matter fact he hates guys like love guru. Shiney Ahuja's wife in my opinion is not sticking by him because she loves him she's trying to keep his career from going down the drain, because she loves the smell of money that comes with his profession she's doing it all for her own selfish ulterior motives. Mona are you doing something similar?? You're not married yet, so it all sounds easy for you to say now, either you're still very young or your biological clock is ticking and that's why you keep on going easy on your bf, if I'm really wrong say so otherwise. I have strong views and convictions because I walk the walk and talk the talk, no guy has ever mistreated me because I've never given anyone that chance. I think your bf is just prepping you up for what's to come, so watch out and don't be too surprised when it happens.

From Kiran

July 21, 2009 1:02 AM
@M...I'm sorry if I insulted you, inspite of what I said you and jay s never overly said anything bad, so I guess that is proof you're not that bad. I just came back to see if you had written anything, I already settled it with jay s, so its all cool. I don't have a problem with nice guys but I do have a problem with guys like love guru who I think is raj with a another name and I wouldn't be surprised if that were the case. Yeah one can either love or hate me but not ignore me. You might not believe this but I was always my parent's golden child and alot of people do love me in a strange and sick way sometimes and just want to possess me and I've got very tiger like behavior, its not easy to cuddle with a tiger now is it hehehe! I'm very difficult and I know it, even impossible at times. When I said I wanted to kill love guru aka raj, I didn't mean it for real, like as if that is possible there are so many like him out there. I think a more practical solution for guys like this is to gather them up like stray dogs find an uninhabitated island for them, strip them naked because prehistoric homo erectuses don't wear clothes and throw a few illitrate village women with them for sexual pleasure and to do cooking and cleaning for them and just leave them there. What do you all think? I think its a great idea. I was wondering also why do guys like love guru aka raj even want to get married if they get bored of looking at the same face all the time they can sleep with a new woman every night and keep the excitement alive no marriage no tension. As for spreading their rotten genes, why doesn't love guru aka raj go to a sperm bank and spread his genes that way, he should think about it, he will never have to take responsibility of raising that child there are no legal obligations, no money to pay out. The best part is that its very efficient like killing several birds with one stone impregnating several women at the SAME time, and the best part his he will even GET PAID FOR IT!!! Now spreading genes has never been so promising has it love guru baby!. aka raj. hahah. Haven't you heard the saying "work smarter not harder".

From Jay S

July 21, 2009 8:24 AM
After reading Love Guru's posts, I could not resist a chuckle although I do not agree with him. Girls, all I can say is that it takes all kinds to make up this world. @Kiran the only gripe I have with you is that you are too quick to belittle Indian men while if you take it as a ratio of the population, Canadians and Americans probably have more pedophiles and sex offenders than India. But, you don't seem to be too affronted by them. But, @Mona has a point too. Love cannot be sustained by confrontation and constant bickering only frays the relationship. It takes great sacrifice and courage to forgive. Whether it can be done at the heat of the moment, I don't know. If my girlfriend cheated on me, I would just walk away. That's me. I personally think marriage is a failed institution at least after the first year. I have seen beautiful relationships foul up in just a few months of marriage. There is something not right about it. But then, it is my own view. The only glue that seems to hold it together is children and expediency. I don't think marriages will be common beyond this century.

From Sonu

July 21, 2009 10:27 AM
Mona I really liked the way you put your point across and I am happy to see a different perspective, its refreshing. Although personally I think I am incapable of forgivness in matters such as these, I really admire people who can forgive and let go and manage to make a life despite incidents likes these. There is a difference between people who stick in marriages out of insecurity, fear of loneliness, kids and societal pressure and people who make a choice to stay and let go beccause they did share a great relationship with their spouses. The latter are at peace with themselves and others and the former continue to stick on bickering and being bitter and making things ugly for themselves and everyone around. I've seen couples who have forgiven and now share a beautiful relationship and I've also seen some women compulsively cheat on their spouses and attribute that to their unsatisfactory marriages (I always wondered why they didn't have the courage to walk out on the marriage, if they were so unahppy). Dignity and self-respect don't equate to kicking someone to the curb, washing dirty linen in public, lashing out and or any of those things. It just equates to how gracefully and with what dignity you carry yourself in such situations. This of course is easier said than done. Kiran, M: There are no thumb rules about relationships, so what might seem unforgivable and simply not done to you might be possible for someone else, because the person shared a great relationship his/her partner and don't think one instance of infidelty is enough to let off the relationship. Everyone has a right to live the life they want to and pursue happiness as long s they aren't harming/hurting others. Let's allow people the space to make their choices and not get judgemental about their personal lives. Intolerance to diversity and other perspectives I think is the root of all evil. Please let us leave Anupam in peace to defend her husband, irrespective of what her motivations are and no matter how silly she sounds.

From M

July 21, 2009 12:56 PM
Mona , You are mistaken about one thing . I am already married and I found my wife about two years back . We got married one year after we met . I know that she loves me and I love her . However, I would find it hard to forgive her if she cheated on me and she would probably walk out if I cheated on her . As Sonu said , people are different but one thing is sure. A person cheats on his or her spouse only because his or her love is not strong enough . There is no room for discussion here . I mean if the person you love was thinking about you , he or she would not have cheated. I think any sane person would agree with me here . Sonu . I do not know what made you think that I was judging people on how they lived their own lives. Read what I typed before . A person cheats on his or her spouse only when he or she does not respect his or her spouse and love his or her spouse as he or she is expected to . Period . Whether you forgive your spouse or not is of course your personal business. I am stating my opinion but not telling people to accept it . A fact is that a spouse cheats only if he or she does not love his or her spouse to the right extent . To forgive or not to forgive is a personal choice . Isn’t it clear Sonu ? Jay S, You believe that all marriages are failed institutions after one year . Well , as long as that is your opinion , it is fine but nothing is farther from the truth . I have been married for a little more than a year now . I do not see anything failing . Sure , things change after marriage . There are restrictions but then , you cannot have your cake and eat it too . I think you should be married to be able to say whether it is bad or not . You say that you think that marriages won’t happen in the future . Well , marriage is just a commitment . Many people do not want to get married say in the west because they are not sure that they will be with the same person for ever . They do not want to get into legal battles later should they want to split . It shows doubt . When you agree to a marriage with someone , you are telling that person , that you want to be with him or her forever and you trust him or her . Whether it will be forever or not only time will tell but at one point , you thought so . I have read about some celebrities getting married with prenuptial arrangements .Now , that is what I call sick . It is a lack of trust . Kiran , Your idea sounds cool but I would not want the genes of bad people to spread . I am not saying Raj is one but in general . It looks like Raj has a reason to be frustrated. His wife cheated on him and so he has a problem with women in general now . It is a phase. Do empathize with him .

From M

July 21, 2009 4:42 PM
I meant nothing could be further from the truth * Correction

From neil

July 21, 2009 5:33 PM
@M............. its possible to "forgive" if its one off mistake such as a "one night stand" ...i dont think its possible if forgive or carry on a relationship if your spouse is emotionaly involved with someone else.

From M

July 21, 2009 5:45 PM
Niel , I know what you mean . You mean to say that emotional affairs cause greater agony than physical affairs . Generally , emotional affairs are physical too. Generally , they are not mutually exclusive . Even in a one night stand , you let lust take the better of you and when you cheated on your spouse, you forgot about him or her or you intentionally ignored him or her . It is possible for some people to forgive but forgiveness does not mean that they forgot and many people cannot forgive . For the ones who forgive, life will never be the same again . It is all about trust my friend

From Kiran

July 21, 2009 7:17 PM
I completely agree with M. However there are some very true points sonu and Jay S, also did make. The comment Jay S made that marriages only last one year and start to go sour, thats what alot of people tend to believe these days, not my husband and I though. We are living in an era where people don't have feelings and compassion anymore, and just split up over the most smallest and stupidest things unlike our grandparents generation of 60 years ago. What Jay S said is very true for alot of people but that only happens when there is not love between the two people and they are more concerned about themselves rather than the other person's feelings. In my own personal experience we knew a girl who liked my husband and she was also saying something like marriages only last 1 year and after one year of our marriage she checked back in on us in the hopes that we had separated, but here we are 10 years later, and there many girls who did try to cause rifts in our marriage but we never swayed even a cm. These days the bond between a husband and wife needs to be very strong for the marriage to last, otherwise as Jay S they do tend to fall apart quickly, rising divorce rates are happening everywhere. As M said people don't want to put the effort into committment because of nuptial agreements and alimony child support and all the other hassles that go with such a union. One thing I really like about what Sonu said and I think its true that people as opposed to people who stick on in a relationship after being cheated on are much more at peace. If you love someone how can you hurt them?? Mona said her bf would feel so guilty if he did that to her, but that doesn't make sense. How can you ever feel guilty and still hurt that person, then why do it in the first place?? M what you said about raj because his wife cheated on him that's why he's frusterated, again I'm not condoning cheating but judging from the way he talks can you blame his wife sounds to like there was no love in that marriage. I think as Sonu said and I always say the same thing, if you are a dignified lady and have the guts walk out of the marriage end it legally and then do whatever you want. As Sonu said you can't have your cake and eat it too, they want to live on their husband's money and live under his roof, but want to enjoy the bed of another man, to me that is so wrong. That's exactly what a prostitute does, just sleeps around or sticks on for the sake of money. One thing we all agree on if you love someone and if there is true love in a relationship then such things would never happen. It doesn't matter what Mona, or shiney ahuja's wife does, in the end they are going to do whatever they want, and we all know that. My only question to Mona is, you've known your boyfriend for 3 years and I assuming you see him everday, yet you sound so unsure of the nature of your relationship, why??? I knew my husband for only a few months, but since we were over long distance couldn't get married right away, it was after over a year, yet even from such a long distance I never doubted him. To me its like believing in God, there is no question that he doesn't exist and my husband can ever betray that thought doesn't even register in my mind. We are kind of like the Rab ne bana di jodi couple, he's very innocent and kid at heart like a puppy, I'm at ease 24 hours a day, I never worry that he will have an affair, because its not in him. But for Mona your are already sounding so unsure, something for you to think about.....M you sound really great, your wife is really lucky to have you good luck also, congrats you haven't been married long though.

From Kiran

July 21, 2009 9:56 PM
@Mona..Just another question, something for you to think about. Would you marry someone like love guru aka raj? He hasn't even done anything yet, but he's already openly said and given every indication that he's going to cheat on you. The worst part about it is, that he's sees nothing wrong about it and feels no guilt. On the contrary he would buy you a gift if you let him get away with it. When guys like love guru buy gifts for their wives, they don't do it because they love you, or feel sorry and guilty for what they have done. Rather they are just manipulating your emotions by pacifying you, playing mind games, and keeping you at bay. Before you know it this becomes a regular routine and viscious cycle of abuse. So would you still marry him knowing all this? No offense and I'm just guessing but, you said your boyfriend would feel so guilty. I ask this question because I can pick up from your tone, of how unsure you sound of your relationship. I personally think your boyfriend is doing something similar he's making you believe how much he loves you and would feel guilty if he did something like that too. Alot of guys who beat up their girlfriends and wives also say the same thing so is that love to you??? Is hurting someone love to you? Like I said earlier I think he's just prepping you up and preparing you for what's to come, and when you both come to that bridge, you won't put up too much of a fight, since he will already have convinced you of how much feelings he has for you. Sorry I think to a great degree he's already got you emotionally manipulated and convinced. I totally agree with M,its all about trust. I've had some girls who wanted to cause rifts in my marriage but it never worked, and I never argues and bickered over it with my husband because I know where he stands. You also said something about someone who is compatiable. Now don't tell me, by being compatiable you're talking stupid small things like, like the same food, the same books or movies. Those things are such small things, and that's all standard stuff. My husband and I have very different tastes like I said earlier we are like the Rab ne bana di jodi couple. But the one place where we match exactly perfectly are our ideologies, morals values and principles. No offense Mona but sounds to me like your are just trying to adjust to your boyfriend's ways by killing your own personal identity, that's what I meant when I said "half dead". You said I contradicted myself buy you yourself made the biggest contradiction, when you love someone you don't hurt them and then shed tears to show that you feel guilty. Its like committing murder, most people who do it are very well aware of the fact they are doing a wrong, but still they do it, because they don't have what you call a conscious or that voice inside their head that stops them from committing a wrong act. I think you also know it. There's no excuse for it. People often argue and bicker like crazy on serious or big issues like cheating when their ideologies don't match. My husband and I argue but over the remote control because he likes to watch old movies and like more modern movies, or what to have for dinner but that too in a funny loving way over silly things, but not over big issues that can strain our relationship. The question is as I said earlier how long can you keep up this compromising attitude before you burn out. I've seen so many examples, you might not burn out today, but there will come a time when you won't be able to take it. anymore.

From Kiran

July 21, 2009 10:23 PM
@Love Guru aka raj...First of all there is nothing loving about you. Secondly, someone should tell you that life is not like a McDonald's menu, "YOU CAN'T HAVE IT YOUR WAY!". Third, I read this somewhere about girls and I really liked and you should learn something from it. Girls are alot like apples, all the best ones are at the top, however since alot of guys (you being one of theme) don't have the guts or confidence to go and reach for the best ones at the top, guys like you go for all the rotten low quality ones at the bottom. What happens the ones at the top start to think there is something wrong with them, when if fact they are GREAT!!! All they need to do is wait for the that one special guy who has the confidence and cares enough about them to reach for the top, you my man are NOT of them!. The fact you like such rotten girls, is a clear indication that you are lacking yourself to a great deal, and you hate yourself so much so you hate on women.....@M, that's why I said in my last posts, "rotten genes". When I said love guru should go to the sperm bank, I meant it more as sarcasm and was taunting him rather than saying it for real. The last thing we need in this world are more defective carbon copies of prehistoric apes like love guru running around. Guys like you should be picked up, held down and sterilized, and in return as a GIFT! we will give you a the lastest model in digital TV, or anything other electronic device of your choice, or maybe a trip to the zoo to see your relatives. Man! your mother and father should be smacked for producing such a useless son.

From Jay S

July 22, 2009 8:11 AM
52% of marriages in the West end up in a divorce. Let us not kid ourselves into thinking that we are different. We are heading down the same path. As Indian women find their feet emotionally and financially, this will only go up. If women choose to stay in a bad marriage, it is often expediency that comes in. How many in the 48% of marriages that survive do for that same reason is anybody's guess. @M I am not saying all marriages end up that way but the numbers tell a tale. But marriages do offer emotional and financial security if you are lucky enough to end up in one based on true affection. @Kiran, I think you picked the right man. After you yourself said that you are an aggressive kind of a lady, you don't need another alpha in the pack. This is what makes marriages so complex. One hardly gets such in-depth data about the partner before the marriage - making it more of a lottery than it should be. I am sure Anupam wouldn't have remotely thought she was marrying an animal like Shiney. Let's not sanitize what he did. That is not just any old 'mistake'. You have to have a criminal bent of mind to rape somebody.

From M

July 22, 2009 12:33 PM
Thanks Kiran for all the compliments . Sure , one year is not long enough like ten years but I have known my wife for almost two years; long enough to know whether I made a mistake or not . I also agree with you that people split up for the flimsiest of reasons . So stupid that it would make George Bush look like a genius  I also know what you mean when you say that people try to cause rifts in your marriage or at least hit on your husband or so . I hate such people . I mean first of all married people are off limits but for some idiotic people , since married people are forbidden , they want them all the more . What can I say about such people ? Thrash . Sometimes , some guys or girls also do not know their limits either . I mean it is okay if I were great friends with a girl before my marriage but she cannot expect me to have the same kind of time for her after I am married to someone else . The same applies for any male friends of my wife . I mean things change after marriage and we have to accept it . Personally , ( Some people may call me conservative but I know I am not ) I think it is better that one does not hang around alone with any member of the opposite sex unless it is absolutely necessary like say for work reasons or when you could not avoid such a situation . It is not about trusting your spouse . It is about trusting the other person who is with your spouse . I do not know what to say about Mona . Maybe, her bf is a nice guy and he never did anything wrong to her that was so drastic . Maybe, Kiran your analysis is totally wrong ( I mean about her ) . Well , I do not agree with you that probably there was a reason why Raj’s wife cheated on him . Not that you condoned it but if someone is not happy with his or her marriage , one should walk out of it and then fool around . Of course, you did say this . I did doubt that you were being sarcastic when you talked about genes : ) He he Jay S I agree with you that divorce rates are increasing and will increase. I know at least two friends who got divorced and for stupid reasons . No one even cheated on anyone . One reason was that one of the spouses did not want to move to where the other was . Also , I personally think all rapists ( when it is proven beyond doubt ) should be shot or hanged . Rape is the worst form of punishment you can dole out to a woman .

From Lefty

July 22, 2009 1:29 PM
Guys: the institution of marriage is a relic from the past and it is going to be kicked to the curb one day soon. why bother with marriage and divorce when you can simply live together with emotional commitment - a piece of paper is not a commitment anymore.

From M

July 22, 2009 4:19 PM
Well , if it not , why not sign it smart guy ? Why not just marry if it makes the other one in your life happy . It is just a piece of paper right ? Hypocrite !

From Kiran

July 22, 2009 7:39 PM
@Jay S..I agree with alot of things you are saying, at present, since you are not married you are completely correct, as I said earlier,I was where you are now many years ago, and from that standpoint its true. I just believe marriages these days fail so much because people these days have too many unrealistic expectations, and just choose to unneccesarily complicate their lives. If I were to give a good solution to all these problems in a nutshell, its keep life simple. But no, everyone wants to make millions of bucks (that too in a hurry), have the most expensive things, live an extravagant lifestyle and show off to others and false prestige. My husband and I have got everything, and if we wanted we could blow up all our money traveling here and there, and buy all kinds of useless junk, but we are both to simple for all that nonesense. This may be one of the reasons why people get divorced over stupid things. That's why I said to you Jay S, when you get married make sure you have a girl who doesn't like you for your money, and you have to give her repsect and I don't see why you guys can't have a happily married life. It's just that like M and myself you haven't crossed that bridge called marriage, so you're still standing on the other side. I hope you do someday. You also said something about in depth data of a person before marriage. Well not everyone is born with the same level of sharp judgement, but its just who am and the way I've always been, I'm not saying I'm always perfect at it, but it doesn't take me very long to judge and person and come to a conclusion about what kind of person they are. But in order to do this you have to know what it is that you want for yourself, and also but just as clear about what it is that you DON'T want either. As I said before it all starts with the self, if you don't know what you want from yourself how will you know what you want from someone else. The most important thing to remember is never give up your identity for anyone else, NOBODY! I'm still doing exactly today, and living the way I've always done, I never had to kill myself to adjust to any situation to make my marriage work, it all comes as natural as breathing. As a matter of fact before my marriage I was really stressed out all the time due to the constant bickering and fighting everyday with my parents, since they wanted me to conform to backward things and kill my own identity with my own hands, its like coming out of hell and going to heaven, which is why I don't go back and visit them. I don't know why anupam married shiney, maybe as I think neil said sometime back, this isn't the first time shiney ahuja has done something like this, its just that this time his luck ran out and he got caught and she's known that he was like this for some time. Otherwise in spite of all the evidence why is she still sticking to him, I guess she must have married him for all the wrong reasons. Its all about priorities, you can't have everything at the same time. I see alot of people marrying for money, postion, to go abroad, and trying to marry someone from their own profession to have a double income, and then at some point they end up becoming miserable. The reason being because they didn't have their priorties straight, one should first marry because they love the person, their heart is telling them this is the one, their values and ideologies match. I'm not saying having a good edcuationan and a decent job and all that other stuff is not important but that is the second step. What is the point of marrying someone even if they are super rich, and in terms of materialistic things they can give you everything when you don't love them and are miserable. Money is necessary for surviving YES,but in order to live you need much more than that, money can't buy everything.

From Kiran

July 22, 2009 8:07 PM
@M..Again everything you said is very true indeed. But the reason why married men do get hit upon alot as compared to single men, as my husband always says "they are timetested", girls think such a guy must be great, stable and decent that he got married, so why not try to steal him away from his wife. I always ask this to my husband, "if you were to leave me for such a woman, then what makes her think you won't do it to her and leave her for someone else". To that my husband just says "they don't think that far ahead, and think it can't happen to them". Its an age old "saying, what goes around comes around." You're absolutely right, the reason why I don't like my husband being around other women and vice versa with him, is there is no question of mistrust between us, but rather its the other's person evil intentions that can't be trusted. We're no mindreaders that we can guess how far a person will go to snatch someone's spouse away, because I've had many girls who gave it their best shot to take my husband away but it didn't work. All I know is that if I were these girls I would never hit upon someone else's husband/bf. Those just aren't my morals and values. You at times sound just like my husband, he only keeps his relationships with women professional as far is the job is concerned, as a matter of fact he even got complaints put against him, because women were complaining at work that he doesn't look at them. As my husband always says, "why should I look at those ugly mad bitches, when I have the best wife waiting at home for me." M you also sound something like it as well, so my hats off to you. As far as Mona is concerned, maybe to a certain degree I could be wrong that I analyzed her relationship incorrectly, but I'm just speaking from my wisdom and experience here. However, I don't think I'm that wrong either, I may not be 100% right, who knows, but true to a great extent,yes. Lets be fair, for some people its not easy being lonely in life, and in their minds its justified that if for the sake of not wanting to be alone, if you have to take some bullshit and humiliation in the process, then what's the big deal, no harm done. But then there are people like me, who can't take even an iota of humilation, and my natural instinct is to attack like a wild animal. Which is why I think I really kicked up a storm in here intially. I guess we are shaped by our experiences, and these kinds of issues have shaped my life and who I am. In our family my sister and I were always treated like second class citiezens just because we were girls, and my brother sat around all day like a king doing nothing and he didn't even need to open his mouth, and my mom and dad would be running to cater to his needs, but now they are really suffering for it since he does nothing but sleeps all day long and his school friends are all settled in life and married, whereas he has never earned even a penny of his own money in his life. That's why I'm always saying upbringing plays an important roles and how a person turns out to be. So that's why I said to Mona, how long can she keep up this compromising attitude, before she burns out. I always use to think my parents wanted my best also, because they use to claim that and I thought well they're my parents so they must know what they are taking about, and by the time I was grown up, I was like man, these people don't know shit, they also use to use emotional manipulation as way of controlling their kids. Mona can do whatever she wants, but she needs to understand that path she is trying to take, she can expect alot of misery if she doesn't come to her senses soon. I realized it when I was like 14 or 15, so I handled myself very well, and never let anyone break me, but like I said not everyone is born with the same level of steel guts and will take bullshit in return for companionship. Maybe shiney ahuja's wife is also the same, who knows, my mom also talks like her, but internally she's a very insecure and weak woman. I think these people are very defensive and always suspicious of others, that everyone is out to get them, so maybe shiney ahuja's wife is just like that. The more I think about it the more I think I may be right. but then again who knows what the truth is.

From M

July 22, 2009 8:21 PM
Hi Kiran , I will write more later since I have German classes today evening ( brushing up my German skills ) . I know that this is not exactly the place to make friends but maybe , you and I can be friends. If you are on facebook or Orkut or whatever, let me know . You need not give me your personal details here . You can just write me at matt756@gmail.com or mathew7aby@yahoo.com. Of course, this is just a proposal .If you are not up for it , no problem . I just think it would be great to know a person who thinks alike and maybe I can get to know your husband too . Of course, it is a pity that we are in different continents. he he

From jose joseph

July 22, 2009 8:23 PM
God what is this, a forum or a battle ground between men and women. Well anyway, i had a good time reading the comments especially between Raj and Kiran, though by the end, i stopped readng their comment (now now dont go balastic about it). but anyway i had a good laugh over lowly indian men and women trying to prove each other is low, by going even lower.

From Pookey

July 22, 2009 8:30 PM
I think Raj has some suppressed issues in his mind that he needs to address. I think that the fact that his wife cheated on him led to an eruption of his suppressed thoughts that resulted in an irrational set of thought processes. Very natural to do that... I didn't go through all the posts, but I did see the name-calling mela that it descended into; based on whatever little I've read, I think that further infuriating Raj won't help anyone. Instead, everyone need to take a breather and relax. Raj, what caused your wife to cheat? Do you know? You obviously loved her, which is why you are left feeling so cheated, so unable to trust any Indian woman anymore... However, in some cases venting your fury on others won't help you heal, in fact it will engulf you into an ongoing cycle of hatred and more hatred. I know that it sounds all preachy, but you will never be happy again till you let go, forgive her and move on. Believe me, I've been there... You could start with asking yourself the question, 'why did she cheat?'. I know it will be very painful to ask yourself that, but you have to ... and be completely honest with yourself ... This is the only way healing can begin.

From Kiran

July 22, 2009 9:58 PM
@M..thanks for the proposal, but yeah it is really long distance..so lets see. Its like almost noon here, and you go to German classes so late?? Good for you. We were once in Amsterdam, and just looking at some of these European languages, is enough to make my brain explode and ooze out of my ears, the words are so long, some even hyphenated. Yeah what to do, that just shows good people are in short supply these days. We once invited a couple (indian of course) to our house for dinner out of good will, first time we met them at their house, they seemed very happy and chirpy, but when they came to our house, you should have seen the looks on their faces, like someone had shot them. Obviously they didn't feel good seeing our home and as compared to their little apartment. The lady kept on making faces at me all evening, and the next time we went to their house she turned her back on me and didn't even talk. Some lady of the house and hostess. I was like I'd be damned if I let you worms back in my house again. After that she was begging to come over but never let them come. Serves them right. No I'm not facebook or anything. I just happen to come by this totally by accident. I was just trying to find out what happened to this shiney ahuja case, since there have been no new development lately because I was into michael jackson's death for a while, and before I knew it I was in here kicking up a storm, and just being little old me. My father-in-law called shiney's wife a "nut" and I agree.

From Love Guru

July 23, 2009 9:15 AM
Oh pul-lease... you guys are the limit. Kiran and M paste me for telling the truth and now you guys are hitting on each other??!! Next thing you know you guys will be making out. How about that? Here's a tip: humans are polygamous by nature. The only thing that stands between a spouse who is faithful and one who isn't is opportunity. A partner will have as much appeal as an squid after some time into a marriage. Now, don't give me that 'true love' baloney. Want to send love to the grave? Get married! Reading between the lines of your posts, I get a strong sense that you guys have reached the down-curve too. Happy pretending !! It is easier to make those righteous noises than to face up to the truth let alone put it in writing. Go figure! Every relationship starts out just as innocently. Nature takes over and before you know it, the deed is done. I expect a long, holier-than-thou post from Kiran. Usually the ones who makes the most noise are the ones who are most susceptible - an indication of a raging inner conflict. If this post hits a raw nerve, you know why. Kiran, your one statement "@M..thanks for the proposal, but yeah it is really long distance..so lets see" is such a loaded one. So much can be read into it. Here's a sample: 1.) The distance worries you. 2.) You would be game if M lived closer. 3.) The prospect intrigues you. 4.) You are flattered by the interest.

From M

July 23, 2009 12:33 PM
Kiran Couldn’t agree more with you about what you said to Jay S . I mean most of it . Yes, many couples have unrealistic expectations and then the comparison starts with other people . This is where it all goes wrong . The grass always seems greener on the other side but sometimes what you see is not exactly what is there . Now , on what you addressed to me ; Yes, married people get hit upon also because the people who hit upon them think that since they are married, there is something about them and also because they are forbidden fruit or any of the two . I also wonder why a woman for instance who tries to steal away someone’s husband does not think that the guy could dump her too later . By the way , it is not that your husband does not look at those women because they are ugly .In fact, some of those women may be prettier than you but he sees no reason to . It is not just about looks . It is about love . I did read what love Guru who may be Raj said that you and I were hitting on each other . I will get back to him on that . ha ha . What a loser ! He hardly knows what kind of a guy I am . Anyways , yes , many people do not want to be lonely and to avoid that , they go to any extent . Not saying Mona is one of them . I can hardly comment on her . Upbringing does play a huge part and I think the parents of many rapists and bad men are to blame more than anything else . Parents do usually want the best for their children but there are some areas where they cannot be the best judges like say decide who their child should marry Now , to get back to Love Guru for his cheap comments

From Amit

July 23, 2009 12:39 PM
Looks like Shiny is becoming a inspiration for other married couple. We are seeing dating between M and Kiran. Arey Kiran memsaab M only asked for ur email. Why are you worried about distance? Usne aapko cinema dekhne thodi bulaya hai !! Now these are people who want to give "bashan" about marraige !! I think love-guru is clever man. He understands psycology well. My English not not good. I speak Hindi at home so forgive spelling mistakes.

From M

July 23, 2009 12:42 PM
Love Guru ( You may be Raj ) I am not sure First of all , you do not know the difference between friendship and hitting on someone else . Sure , all affairs start with friendships but not everyone is cheap like you . I have been approached by what you call slutty women at clubs and yet did not give in to them . Once , I even had a woman all over me in a club . She was partially drunk too . So , don’t judge me without even knowing anything about me . You have an axe to grind and that is not my problem . I like making friends even if it is over the internet with people who I assume think like me . If I were trying to hit on Kiran , I have to be stupid . First of all , she is in some other continent . Second , I told her that maybe her husband and I can also get to know each other . Last but not the least, why would I try to hit on some girl in some other country when I can easily bed some girl here in Germany itself.I have not even seen Kiran you nitwit . Do you have even have grey matter where it should be my friend ? You have been snubbed by some girl and now you hate everyone . You can also probably become a serial killer given the right circumstances . Of course, many spouses cheat when they have an opportunity but I have had my opportunities time and over again and I never cheated. It is all about how strong in the mind you are . Do I get tempted ? Every man gets tempted ( every normal man ) but when you love someone , you just cannot cheat on her and do not want to cheat on her . 15-30 minutes of pleasure is not worth it . You will never understand it because you are a douche bag . I can understand your frustration but what I cannot understand is the way you are venting it on other people Peace out .

From M

July 23, 2009 12:43 PM
Amit may be another pseudonym used by Love Guru Nice tricks My God . I never asked for her email . Cheap people .

From Love Guru

July 23, 2009 1:00 PM
M ji, on the contrary, I love people especially women. They are much more evolved than men. But what I hate is people pretending that they are somehow above other humans - aka hypocrites. Again in the safe anonymity of the internet, everyone can pretend to be a Gandhi or a Teresa. The reason we can only think of a handful of humans who we can call 'great' is because they are so rare. So, stop acting like one. If you can rise above personal abuses and read your posts in an objective way and consult your inner mind over what the intentions truly were, you might possibly hit upon the truth, for a change. Even if you don't acknowledge it, you can come to terms with it. If I were snubbed by a girl would I be preaching untethered love? I would more likely preach refraining. You say that you wanted to make friends? I don't see you asking for emails from your own sex. An accident or a Freudian slip? Obviously you need to exercise them gray-cells a little more, aye?

From M

July 23, 2009 1:07 PM
Love Guru You were snubbed or cheated on for sure . Ha ha . What a comeback . Oh boy , Am I floored by your retorts ? How do you know I am pretending ? I did not ask Kiran for her email in the first place. All I asked was if she was on Orkut or Facebook and told her that she could mail me if she did not want to give her details on this forum . Why did I not try to contact guys ? Read through all the posts greenhorn . I asked one guy named ACG or AGC before . You were preaching love ? Where ? In your dreams ? When did I even say I were great . I know who I am . I have a problem with you judging me without even knowing a tad about me . So , you can keep attacking women and then say that you love women . Nice change in tactics .

From M

July 23, 2009 1:11 PM
By the way , Mr Love Guru or rather Hate cuckoo , I am very sociable by nature and very friendly with people I like . I have made many friends over the internet and met many of them so before you judge me , think twice . My friends will vouch for it Man , the easiest way would be to get over the dumping or whatever and find a new woman. You would be doing the world and yourself a favour . It happens . Men like you can be dumped and the reasons are clear .

From Love Guru

July 23, 2009 1:13 PM
So, M You like meeting people especially the female variety? You just want to be friends with Kiran. Is that it? You sly fox, you recognize a person who is vulnerable. I have to give that to you, you do know your psychology too. Guess what? I didn't post my contact details and I know what you know too.

From Love Guru

July 23, 2009 1:16 PM
M, can you quote one sentence where I have attacked women? Can you? You don't let truth come in the way of a good argument do you?

From M

July 23, 2009 1:27 PM
Your post directed at Kiran Read below Shiney's wife is a shining example of what a wife should do if her husband has had an affair with another woman. Indian ladies please learn from her ! If your husband is caught cheating, go easy on him. He has to deal with a lot of stress to provide for you and your offspring. Also, how long can a man keep looking at the same face? After a few years, the man starts to groan at the thought of turning off the lights. Oh, by the way, I am not married :-) Need I say more ? Does it not tell what you expect of women and that you expect them to be doormats ? Oh of course, you can go and say that it was sarcastic .If it were, you would not behave the way you did. By the way , there is no proof that you are not Raj after all . After all , where did the guy suddenly go ? Try your tricks elsewhere internet troll . You still have not gotten over your being dumped have you ?

From Love Guru

July 23, 2009 2:04 PM
M, hello? If anything I was demeaning men and their loose ways. They and their gene propagation - which by the way, is a scientific theory on Gene-Centered Evolution. But I don't expect you to know it. I was pleading with women to forgive them. In case you did not get it, the misdemeanor I implied all came from the men. Oh boy, you are a little dim.

From Love Guru

July 23, 2009 2:24 PM
By the way M, my girl friend (she works with me) has gone through the blog and the comments and she could not stop laughing. In fact, a few of us at work follow the comments here for some comic relief. But , I am not implying that I posted my comments in jest. Love Gurus are a serious breed of men.

From shibu

July 23, 2009 3:59 PM
Why don't you guys stop fighting and exchange some valuabble positive comments?

From M

July 23, 2009 4:09 PM
Oh really . You were demeaning them and that is why you were attacking Kiran and me ? That also explains your Raj avatar ? What a smart guy ? You do not expect me to know it ? What do you know about me anyways ? You and your virtual girlfriend can keep laughing :):) :0 Love Gurus ? ha ha Shibu , Why don't you just stop coming here if you do not like it ?

From M

July 23, 2009 4:10 PM
Love Guru , You were the one who was hinting at Kiran and me hitting on each other . That shows how cheap you are. Sure, you are certainly a breed . A very common breed. You and your virtual girlfriend .

From M

July 23, 2009 4:15 PM
Also you claimed that the only thing that stands behind a faithful spouse and one who is not is opportunity . So , does that mean that you will cheat on your virtual girlfriend or your gf if you ever have an opportunity ? Or does it mean that you have an open relationship because you claim humans are polygamous in nature ? ha ha After reading your posts, your gf laughed after you claimed all one needed was opportunity to cheat . Oh , now you can claim stupidly that you are not married. You meant that only for married people ,didn't you ? A girlfriend who can read what you typed and yet laugh is either just having fun with you or is open to open relationships . Not that anyone believes a guy like you has a gf . lol . Let's cut to the chase. How many times have you been dumped ?

From Bishwaroop Sen

July 23, 2009 4:22 PM
Phew ! That is a lot of posts . After reading all of em , I got to say I got to agree with M even though he is a bit an in your face kind of guy . He speaks the truth and I do think that this love guru guy is some kind of a loser . Sorry i do not mean to hurt feelings but I have to be frank here

From Love Guru

July 23, 2009 5:50 PM
Drat, couldn't fool you ! Man, you are sharper that what I had put you down for. I don't know about Kiran and you at all. You guys are VERY compatible. I can see some merit in your 'proposal' thing now. For all your preaching about spouses staying together, you two are doing a lot of breaking up of your own. Raj's wife apparently deserted him and now Love Guru's girl friend has ditched him. Looks like you want to be the only one hooked around these parts - which comes back to the Gene-centric Theory of Evolution. You display some classic traits. If I were you, I wouldn't post too often. Your facade is slipping - your alter-ego Bishwa's compliments notwithstanding. You can post your contact info. any place you want, as long as it is not after a sermon on marital fidelity - of all matters. Lol. Germany, did you say? Hmmm... they must not be too picky these days. How many times have I been dumped? Well, once. She is apparently married to a guy who does dishes in Germany. Some loser, hey? Listen up one last time, you amorous dimwit. You DON'T post contact info directed at females in public forums. Get yourself an education on basic internet etiquette. Have a great life !

From Svani

July 23, 2009 6:07 PM
@M, Sie sind ein Verlierer!

From M

July 23, 2009 6:12 PM
Svani , You just used google to translate . ha ha . It explains the sie sind and the use of ein instead of einen . Love Guru again in the avatar of Svani

From M

July 23, 2009 6:18 PM
Oh now , Love Guru is teaching me etiquette. Wow . You have already judged Kiran and me . You know what . I was hoping that I could first approach Kiran , then she would either fly over to Germany or I would go over to Canada and then we would have a great life together . ha ha . My façade is slipping . So you say . Who said Bishwaroop was my alter ego? Why don’t you check the IP address that Mr Sen used . I am not like you that I would post with different names to prove a point . What is the similarity between martial fidelity and extending a hand of friendship . Kiran did not feel I was wrong to extend a hand of friendship so what is your problem ? By the way , Indians cannot get a job or an Arbeitserlaubnis in Germany if they only do dishes. You hardly know anything about the labour laws in Germany . You can keep staying frustrated . I tell you . Just hang in there . You will find a girl . Why hate the whole world if some girl dumped you or cheated on you ? Love Guru . At least , try and live up to that name . You don’t have to be a loser because your girlfriend or wife dumped you .

From M

July 23, 2009 6:19 PM
Svani oder Love Guru oder Raj oder Bloedmann, Du bist einen Verlierer . Denkst du dass Deutsch leicht zu lernen ist ? Deutsch ist keine Sprache fuer doofe Leute

From M

July 23, 2009 6:23 PM
Verpiss dich Nazi !

From M

July 23, 2009 6:31 PM
You are so filled with rage that you make mistakes Man, you are sharper that what I had put you down for. I think you meant than ... Cool down . The whole world is not against you . One girl left you or cheated on you but why do you hate all the girls in this world for that ? Did you love her so much ? It happens man . Some guys get dumped and you just became part of the yearly statistics .Were you too possessive ? What happened ?

From Kiran

July 23, 2009 7:09 PM
@M...I knew it before hand that when you asked to get in touch with me, this love guru, would touch on that point and try to use it as a comeback. That just proves where his sick brains are at. Based on all his scientific mumbo jumbo, he is trying to condone, defend and justify his so called in built need to cheat. Why doesn't he just come out in the open and say "I'M HORNY AS HELL AND CAN'T HELP IT!!!!!", at least be truthful, instead of making up all excuses. Love gure was talking about working as a dishwasher or something, well I have got the perfect job for him in mind, MALE STRIPPER!! I sincerely hope love guru gets HIV/AIDS one day, then I would like to see if he has the same sick ideas as what he has now. M,there is no need to argue further with is male gigilo. Some people just find out the hard way, he'll die of a sexually transmitted disease one day. I'm sure if given the chance he won't even spare his own sister and mother, and would love to have an orgy with them, "NOTHING LIKE KEEPING IT IN THE FAMILY HAHAH!!". I find it very hard to believe that his "so called gf" who doesn't really exist would read this and be okay, as you said M she's just either passing time with him or is a total ***/whore herself. Who knows to make extra money he must be pimping her as a prostitute.

From M

July 23, 2009 7:15 PM
Actually I thought the same Kiran when I asked you if you wanted to be friends but I took the chance. My bad. Anyways , you said what I wanted to say . Good luck and take care. God bless

From M

July 23, 2009 7:17 PM
And the dishwasher thingy was directed at me .He implied I was one . he he .

From Nik

July 23, 2009 8:46 PM
lolllllllllll ... i really havent had the time nor the patience to read evrything above ... but i did read a few of them ... and yu indian males need to seriously grow up. I live in Bombay ... and i know how hypocritical this society is ... a lot of ppl here have nuthing better to do than criticize evrything ... besides always trying to be dominant and pretentious.

From Kiran

July 23, 2009 9:44 PM
To Amit, love guru or whatever other names you given yourself, I get the feeling all these other posts are raj love guru are all be the same person. Someone here said what has distance got to do with it. Well you nut heads if you had read my earlier posts you all would have come to know that my husband and I were at long distance to and that didn't stop me, SO! I don't need to make excuses. The truth of the matter is when I said "lets see" that was just my way of putting it off decently without being rude to M, that I'm not actually interested simply because I'm not the type of person to chat and make friends through the internet so much. M don't mind it, be these sickos are just trying to nit pick anything in order to attack us, so I'm just explaining it to them. Some of you guys here called me and M hypocrits, well you brain dead worms, if we wanted to cheat as M said, we could find someone much closer to home, why the hell would we go to so much trouble to cheat with someone around the world. M has only been married a year, and I for 10 years, so he's probably younger than me unless he got married late. For all your information I'm not attracted to younger guys, I'm very particular about age, and even if he is older than me (not that I'm that old) it still doesn't matter to me, I have a husband and daughter, but that won't make any sense to all of you since all of you are loose stuff. To Amit, if you can't speak english, toh yahaan kya kar re ho!!! Kisi disco club mein jaa na!!! Udhar jaake mooh kala kar kutha!!! The same goes to Love guru.

From Kiran

July 23, 2009 10:36 PM
@love guru...If I were you I'd take out the word "guru" out of your name. This is a title with we equate saintly qualities to, such as purity, wisdom, knowledge, and you are none of those things, let alone anything being loving about you. Your name should be something like "horny gorilla". Sounds to me like something similar must have happened to your mother, what shiney ahuja did to his maid, so that's why you have these immoral animalistic instincts. As you said men have a predispostion to spread their genes,and your father must have thought the same thing too and passed on that shit to you as well.

From gollum

July 24, 2009 12:35 AM
M : Warum lernst Du Deutsch? Warum versuchst du nicht die Kiran ein bisschen anstandiges Englisch zu schreiben??

From gollum

July 24, 2009 1:06 AM
M. Sei vorsichtig! Wann mann schlimm wörter benutzte kann das sehr schnell teuer werden in Deutschland. Eine solche Beleidigung wie du schriebt konnte über 1000 Euro kosten. Ich meinst das ernst. Sei hoflich, bitte.

From Kiran

July 24, 2009 3:50 AM
I guess all of a sudden this forum is being attacked by Germans huh?? As if we all have shit for brains and don't know that this is the same person posting with different names, what a stupid??

From Kiran

July 24, 2009 4:00 AM
I'm even starting to think that love guru was mona also. No woman in her right mind would accpet before hand that it was okay for her man to cheat, so love guru pretended to be his own woman, and write that post. I had my doubts much earlier but just didn't say anything, I guess that explains his imaginery girlfriend also. M I think he's just kind of jealous of us, because you're happily married as I am, and love guru also internally wants that stability so he's coming up with all kinds of made up stories to justify himself. In a nutshell I think we have intimidated him and made him realize just what a low life is.

From Mona

July 24, 2009 8:35 AM
Well, i apologise for the delay in reply as i have been busy working. But here goes. Kiran, i am not a half dead person. Seriously, i don't know what kind of message i gave to you, but really i am the most cheerful and full of life person you will find and i do things my way and speak my mind always. My boyfriend, and i have been together for 3 years, and our relationship is.. i don't know how to explain it to you, we both love each other a lot, to an extent that we chose to take the harder route of convincing our parents, but thats altogether a different issue. I trust my boyfriend more than myself, he goes out clubbing and i don't stop him as i can't go out. But the fact that he stays out till wee hours in the morning, and yet doesn't stop texting me or telling me how much he wishes i was there, and he respects my decisions, whatever decision i do make, he stands by me. He loves me more than anything! And that is all that matters to me, and i know he would not cheat on me. But like i said, if he did i would forgive, but if he does it again.. nope! I am not tolerating that. I am not a dead woman, whos going to keep taking blows, i will give him one chance and if he makes the mistake again, then thats it. I think that ends the whole discussion about me being dead? I just believe in making things work rather than just walking out, because in the back of my mind i will always wonder, what if he did change, what if it would get better, and if it doesn't then i know i won't have any doubts. I am not type of girl who likes to get spoiled by guys, i am an independent woman, i earn and pay for my own expenses, whatever i want i get it with my own money. And my boyfriend buys me gifts, i won't deny that, if he sees theres something i really want but i can't get it because its too pricey or i don't have the budget (as i do work part-time and do so he) He will willingly get it for me, just to see that one smile on my face he will give up his months paycheque and i actually gave up one of my whole christmas paycheque to get him something he really wanted.. just to see that one smile. I hope i am not giving a wrong message to you that i am materialistic or he is.. but i am just trying to explain to you, to what extent we would go to, to make each other happy. It sucks i can't give you any other example other than monetary one.. oh. He ran 45 mins, to come see me once because he had no bus tickets at home or car, thus he decided to run/walk to come see as i really wanted to see him that day.. All this may sound childish to you, and you will again say i am so young, which i admit i am. But i mean these small things, matter a lot to me.. and to clear your doubts. He has told me himself, that he would never cheat on me, he would rather leave me than cheat, because he knows how hard it would hit me. But please don't mistake me to be a half dead woman, i take that as an offense.. maybe if you got to know me personally you would say something else. And i stick to my point, i would forgive him once, but if he repeats the mistake again, nope. Ah.. i wrote an essay! And oh i didn't know that you meant the puking thing towards loveguru, i thought you directed that towards me as well.. thats why i said so.. And i might not be as active here, so please don't think i run away loll

From Mona

July 24, 2009 8:37 AM
so does he** ah a lil typo..

From Mona

July 24, 2009 8:40 AM
OKAY what!? Kiran i just read your last post.. lady please don't turn me into a man. Jeesh. Like i said i am not as active here, and that is due to my work. It just doens't make any sense.

From Mona

July 24, 2009 9:56 AM
Wow i just got to read all the posts, as you can tell i had time on my hands. M and Jay S, thanks for understanding, my boyfriend really is a gem of a person, or else i am known to be a zero tolerance person. I am spoiled rotten by my family, to get anything and everything i want, and again i have zero tolerance. I got what i wanted, and as for me being afraid to be alone, i have been alone for four months, me and my bf broke up in the middle and no not because of any other woman or because he wanted time or he wanted F*** around, it was a serious issue. The first two months i was dead, but then i gathered myself up, i am not afraid to be alone, i have more than enough people in my life, infact i don't have enough time anymore. If needed, i can lead my life alone and i will be fine. So for me to forgive my bf for whatver itsy bit he has done, i wouldn't have done so unless he was worth it. And like i said he hasn't repeated those mistakes again, and they weren't drastic.. i don't think they were atleast and thats what really matters right. I never lacked anything in my life, i got whatever i wanted, thus i am not hungry to be spoiled. Its just i know love doesn't come through easily, and when it does you ought to appreciate it and thats what i am doing. And kiran since you call me weak, let me tell you i am the ultimate support for my boyfriend, now now please don't turn it into i am with him because of pity. So in this case, you were not even CLOSE to being true or right.. Gosh i wish i could go back and delete posts and make em larger instead of quadriple posting!

From M

July 24, 2009 12:36 PM
Gollum , Your German sucks because it is full of simple grammatical mistakes . Something tells me that you know a bit of German or you have used some kind of online translation tool. Pathetic . I will give you examples. One is ich meinst. It should be ich meine . Then , you used wann instead of wenn . What an ass ?Even , students registered for an A1 course will not make the ich meinst mistake. I can give you more ha ha . By the way , are you threatening me that I will be made to pay a 1000 Euros fine or whatever for what I wrote or that you will report me . Get lost . I have lived long enough in Germany to know that I did not break any law . If anything , Germany is one country , where you have a lot of freedom of expression .So Gollum , whoever you are , Love Guru or a friend of Love Guru or whoever, go home to Mama and stop kidding here you nitwit .

From M

July 24, 2009 12:43 PM
Nik and who are you ? Some holier than thou God ? Kiran , I think Mona is a girl and maybe , she has a point .She did say that she would only forgive her bf once. Well , not everyone thinks the same way and maybe, we got to respect what she thinks . I am not hinting that you are reading her wrong . It is hard though for some other people here to respect opinion and they start attacking us subtly and more often than not blatantly . My wife and me also had a long distance relationship too before we got married. Some of these nitwits here do not understand that if we wanted to cheat, we would have looked for someone close by because only those who have gone through long distance relationships will know how taxing it can be . Anyways , did you notice this guy named Gollum who was subtly threatening me ? ha ha . By the way , I took no offense that you declined my request politely. I totally understand and it was my bad actually that I asked to be friends with you in a forum full of low lifes. Take care Kiran and wish you the very best in life .

From M

July 24, 2009 12:45 PM
Mona , I respect your opinion and if it helps you to be forgiving a few times or so , then there is nothing wrong with it . I do think that your boyfriend does love you ( just a hunch ) and you guys will be happy . Love is what matters the most and if he loves you and you love him , there is no one who can come in between the two of you By the way , why is that you cannot go out ? Just curious .

From ladyof the rings

July 24, 2009 3:59 PM
M : 185 StGB (Strafgesetzbuch) „Beleidigung“

From M

July 24, 2009 4:31 PM
Oh I am shit scared.

From M

July 24, 2009 4:32 PM
Lady of the rings , Gollum , Love Guru , bloedmann , Take a hike . Try your cheap tricks with someone else

From M

July 24, 2009 4:34 PM
Lady of the rings , If you want to respond to my posts , do so . You are welcome but any of this crap that you come up with ( a guy like you who cannot even speak German properly) is not going to scare me . I mean how idiotic can one be ? If there was a stupidometer, the reading would show maximum . lol

From Kiran

July 24, 2009 6:38 PM
@M..you're right some people do have their own opinions and that's fair enough.........@Mona..hey I wasn't saying anything bad, I was just assuming, but since you explained yourself that makes a whole lot of sense. Very good for you that you are independent, thats fair enough some people like to give it one chance before walking out the door, but I'm just the kind of person even once is TOO much, because I would never be able to look at my husband again. Its just that the way you initially came across that sick love guru was praising you for that, and if you read his posts carefully you can tell he's the kind of guy to not stop at just one affair and will keep on going until he dies of HIV/AIDS. But glad that you aint as weak as I thought. Its just that when you didn't respond soon, and love guru just started with all his nonsense I must have thought who knows, because as you can see there are some people in here with different names all of a sudden speaking German!!! Weird isn't it. Good luck Mona, and hope you never cross that bridge of infidelity.

From Kiran

July 24, 2009 6:44 PM
Okay, everybody, I think we are finally at the end of this discussion, since this has now turned into a German forum, and its really not going anywhere. This love guru a so called proponent of Darwinism and evolution or whatever other crap he believes in lets all wish him a happy life filled with HIV/AIDS and sexually transmitted diseases since that is where he is going to end up oneday. Maybe then he will remember all of us. He's like a kid who will play with fire until his fingers get burned then he'll go crying back to his mama! Bye everyone.

From M

July 24, 2009 6:51 PM
I am done with this discussion too . Write whatever crap you want to write but I have made my point . Whatever you write , I won't reply to it here because I am not coming back to this topic . ( This is especially for Love Guru and his pseudo German avatars ) Sushmita , I know I used your blog as a battleground but that was because I was provoked to do so and sometimes , you have to respond to cheap people Have fun

From Mona

July 24, 2009 9:03 PM
Kiran.. its all good, i can understand that internet can be a bit misleading, i mean the way you type and the way you speak is different right. But as long as i have it cleared. At M, my parents are still quite strict about me going out clubbing, i still haven't gone clubbing lolll.. simply because it goes on till too late and they are just worried about me cuz of the crowd. And i have to be home by 10 or 11 whenver i go out, sometimes i push it to 12 or 1 but thats very raree.. so yeap, i am pretty much tied down, till i introduce them to my bf and then we get engaged and only then they will let me go out till whatever time because they know i am with someone they trust and know. I can be at the movies with my brother till late and they don't care. So i don't really argue much anymore as i understand their point. Well, i guess we are all done with this discussion. C ya guys on another blog :)

From Bhargava

July 28, 2009 12:58 AM
@Kiran You go girl. You have every right to ***** that stupid raj. And he deserves that. And don't expect much support from the "bharatiya naaris". They are brainwashed to tolerate all the injustices in the name of culture.

From anu

August 3, 2009 1:45 AM
in response to susmitha bose's "I think that's hogwash," I said very loudly, a bit too loudly. But I was still snuffed out by triumphant strains of: "It's alright if the man sleeps around outside marriage -- the woman will sulk but then come to terms. God forbid if the woman does that; actually, you know what? Indian women never sleep around!" hello sushmita bose, if indian women never sleeps around, then with whom are the men of india sleeping outside of marriage with, African? or russian? or KINNERA, GANDHARVA? U have said that anyone in right mind would sleep with shiny ahuja, does that not include indian woman? For ur kind information, all the respect indian woman had is no more, once u demand respect; the true recognition only comes unasked for, u seem to be bcraving for that respect because indian woman prototype doesn't exist anymore as far as i see in my day to day life; Ultimate the fate of indian woman with this sort of weird mentality having no values but demanding holiness will lead to hypocrisy; and it's quiet paradoxical u ar expecting that from ur husband this all will lead to psychotic problems like american and european women with multiple marriages and relationships; only difference between indian men and women is men cannot hide while women manage to hide;Men are lot more honest from my personal experience, i had many relationships with them Why do u think signs of rape suggest RAPE Only; In passion and extreme sex, violence can happen, and women may have these signs even if it's consensual, I hope u stop discriminatin men from women, husband from wife, americans from indians, etc when it comes to basic instincts and think of what is the truth in ur heart frankly about ur instincts and thoughts of any other men besides ur husband!

From Joey

August 5, 2009 8:14 PM
Oye Raj tu kyun chup ho gaya yaar.

From renu

August 8, 2009 12:40 AM
my my my !!! never seen or better say, read anything like this!!!to kiran i would like to say u r one of a kind!god no longer makes like u, u r a wild billi, i can say, and before u start clawing at me, this a compliment, my dear! m really happy to come across someone like u, even though its through the net.Through teeth and nail u defend your cause, and if m not mistaken, going to the extent of depriving yourself of sleep. Rarely seen, oops sorry,read someone like you. U should join politics,defending women's rights and causes,aapse panga koi nahin le sakta,and we women will be better off with a leader like u.(if u r not alredy doing so, from what i hv read u seem hardly someone sitting idle at home). keep going kiran, we women are with you.

From Kiran

August 12, 2009 7:12 AM
@Renu..you won't believe it, but its been several days since I've even checked this particular blog. Good thing I did. Really really thanks for the lovely comment. Believe me I get my nice 8 hours of sleep. Its not like I take time out from other things to write all this. This is a spare time thing, hehehe. Nice to finally see one woman on the right side for a change, than supporting some nonsense men in here. As for being a leader, oh man would I love to be one. Like I always say if I could get more women on my side like you, there wouldn't be so many problems. What to do when so many of our sisters are mislead and treading the wrong path. Yes well I talk the way I do, because I love to be in control and be the queen of my life. I don't go around dictating what others do, but because of age old customs it does become hard for women such as myself to be so outspoken without getting alot of resistence. As for taking panga with me, if anyone gets in my way, I know how to take them out! Once again thanks for the comment. We need more women like you, keep it up.

From ss

August 27, 2009 4:44 PM
Just one thing would like to point out. When your Spanish and American friends spoke about the typical nature of Indian wife who stands by her husband for everything. I wld like to ask them, "How about Hillary Clinton. She has no Indian blood ruuning in her yet she stood by her husband. Hats to Shiney's wife but a sincere request. Mrs Ahuja just keep your mouth shut. The medical report says it was forceful act. Yet this foolish woman says he is framed. yes Shiney is any day damn sexy but he was too confident about his looks.

From Signs Girlfriend is not Faithful. - The Blog Planet

September 16, 2009 9:32 AM

Pingback from  Signs Girlfriend is not Faithful. - The Blog Planet

From Buddy Browser - Safe, Educational And Fun Browser For Children. | 7Wins.eu

September 19, 2009 10:15 PM

Pingback from  Buddy Browser - Safe, Educational And Fun Browser For Children. | 7Wins.eu

From What to Do in Surviving Infidelity? « Wicked Blogging

September 22, 2009 11:50 PM

Pingback from  What to Do in Surviving Infidelity? «  Wicked Blogging

From jade

October 17, 2009 10:32 AM
i think the average indian woman - even the successful, seemingly independent woman - will stick with the guy.... it's crazy, but true. unfortunately, recently i've been around some friends... and the woman had told the man that if she ever found out he was cheating on her, she would leave... she's found out he's been cheating on her... and she's not going to leave.

POST YOUR COMMENT

:
(required)
 
Email Address
(required)
   
(optional)
(HTML not allowed)